Brazil air crash 09 August 2024

[dapaterson]

ATR 72 with four crew and 58 pax crashed near Sao Paulo. No survivors. Aircraft entered a flat spin.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821963403877085686

 

[Good2Golf]

Very unusual to see an aircraft enter into a flat spin like that during the enroute to arrival portion of a flight. The third picture in particular indicates some crazy aircraft motion just prior to the crash (grey line is the projected path direct to SP Aprt).

 

[brihard]

That’s absolutely awful. I can only imagine the last minute of terror they would have all felt… There would have been no mistaking that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Watching the video, the only thing I can think of is that the aircraft was badly out of CG (too much cargo aft?); it stalled somehow and there was no getting the nose down…

 

[SupersonicMax]

Watching the video, the only thing I can think of is that the aircraft was badly out of CG (too much cargo aft?); it stalled somehow and there was no getting the nose down…

T-Tails are notorious for stalling when they get iced up. When they stall, the aircraft is almost always irrecoverable. In general, stalling a T-Tail aircraft results in a proverbial “deep stall,” where the stabilator is blocked from receiving airflow from the fuselage and the only way to recover is to change the aerodynamic configuration of the aircraft (flaps/speed brake) to help a nose over, or use inertial forces to recover (by “rocking” the aircraft out of the stall, although you need fairly heavy control surfaces and/or large control surfaces movements to be effective)

 

[OldSolduer]

That is horrific. Fackkkkk

 

[SeaKingTacco]

T-Tails are notorious for stalling when they get iced up. When they stall, the aircraft is almost always irrecoverable. In general, stalling a T-Tail aircraft results in a proverbial “deep stall,” where the stabilator is blocked from receiving airflow from the fuselage and the only way to recover is to change the aerodynamic configuration of the aircraft (flaps/speed brake) to help a nose over, or use inertial forces to recover (by “rocking” the aircraft out of the stall, although you need fairly heavy control surfaces and/or large control surfaces movements to be effective)

I didn’t really think about icing until I heard about the Sigmet for severe icing around the time and place of the accident.

ATRs are notoriously bad for their icing performance.

 

[GR66]

T-Tails are notorious for stalling when they get iced up. When they stall, the aircraft is almost always irrecoverable. In general, stalling a T-Tail aircraft results in a proverbial “deep stall,” where the stabilator is blocked from receiving airflow from the fuselage and the only way to recover is to change the aerodynamic configuration of the aircraft (flaps/speed brake) to help a nose over, or use inertial forces to recover (by “rocking” the aircraft out of the stall, although you need fairly heavy control surfaces and/or large control surfaces movements to be effective)

You learn something new every day on Army.ca!

T-tail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Good2Golf]

You learn something new every day on Army.ca!

T-tail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

…and even more from some of the old test pilots at Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas:

Deep Stall

As others have noted, the ATR series aircraft, more so the 72, but also the 42, have a statistically significant issue with icing leading to uncontrollability and crashes. Deep stall could possibly have played a part in this incident, but deep stalls (or ‘locked-in’ stalls as they are sometimes called) generally are known to stay in the deep stall, and this aircraft definitely was in a (mostly) flat spin. That said, the center of rotation of the spin didn’t appear to be precisely centered amidst the fuselage, it appeared (at least to me) to be offset slightly to somewhere near the tip of the port wing, as the aircraft spun to port. This may also be indicative of asymmetric thrust potentially resulting from different power levels being produced from each engine. The investigation will most certainly bring more details to bear as the CVR/FDR is analyzed.

 

[Booter]

T-Tails are notorious for stalling when they get iced up. When they stall, the aircraft is almost always irrecoverable. In general, stalling a T-Tail aircraft results in a proverbial “deep stall,” where the stabilator is blocked from receiving airflow from the fuselage and the only way to recover is to change the aerodynamic configuration of the aircraft (flaps/speed brake) to help a nose over, or use inertial forces to recover (by “rocking” the aircraft out of the stall, although you need fairly heavy control surfaces and/or large control surfaces movements to be effective)

Supersonic- is there an advantage to T tailed aircraft?

 

[brihard]

The Daily Mail is reporting that there were eight oncologists among the passengers. What a huge loss to medicine.

Eight cancer doctors among the 62 dead on doomed Brazil flight

Six leading oncologists and two resident medics, in their final year of training, were on their way from their home city of Cascavel to a cancer conference in Sao Paulo when the crash happened.

www.dailymail.co.uk