BOHICA: Pre-election Spending Coming

[The Bread Guy]

Courtesy of Canadian Press...

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/051121/n1121123A.html

"The minority Liberals were preparing a flurry of major spending announcements Monday with their government expected to fall within a week.  A $100-million promise for rail and mass transit. Millions more for labour-training deals with the provinces. About $4.6 billion for new military transport aircraft. A forestry plan worth more than $1 billion that will include a softwood lumber bailout package...."

More on mil planes BACK on the table...

[ Article ]

"The Canadian government intends to announce plans on Tuesday to buy replacements for its aging Hercules transport planes, but ran into opposition criticism on Monday that it was stacking the bidding process.  Defense Minister Bill Graham told Parliament on Monday there would be plenty of competition for new military aircraft, but Conservative Member of Parliament Gordon O'Connor said the way bids are being set will favor Lockheed Martin Corp...."

 

[Infanteer]

I guess we can thank Mr O'Conner for having the oldest Hercs in the world....

 

[KevinB]

Well the Conservatives can thank Mr O'Connor for one less vote (mine)...

 

 

[Pencil Tech]

Normally, the Conservatives should be able to count on a lot of support around here, but this O'Connor just never stops alienating the military voters with his knee-jerk opposition to anything good the government might actually do re defence. Obviously that party doesn't read Army.ca!

 

[Infanteer]

Well, I just seen a live news-broadcast in which the 4.6 billion dollar deal for 16 Hercs was announced.  Bravo to the Liberal government for bashing through with this plan, despite Mr O'Connor's ramblings about Lockheed Martin Conspiracies.

The best question asked by a reporter was "why haven't we been doing this for 20 to 30 years?"  The MND's response - "I haven't been the Minister for 20 years."

I'm generally pleased with what the Defence Team has brought for the Forces - it makes me seriously consider a Liberal vote in the upcoming election....

 

[TAS278]

Well as members of the military are most affected by the MND it only makes sense to vote to keep him in power. Now for the rest of them....... I am glad to hear good things are coming but what have we traded to get this new equipment?

 

[Cloud Cover]

The best question asked by a reporter was "why haven't we been doing this for 20 to 30 years?"   The MND's response - "I haven't been the Minister for 20 years."

Too bad he didn't finish that off with " ... but if you give me another 5 I'll show you how far we plan to go."

 

[Britney Spears]

So it's decided then? Can army.ca be counted on as a reliable Liberal bastion in the next election?

 

[KevinB]

Begining to look like it... 

 

[Infanteer]

So it's decided then? Can army.ca be counted on as a reliable Liberal bastion in the next election?

Not necessarily - we're far from a single-platform constituency around here and there is a gamut of other issues that need to be looked at.  However, Defence and Security is an important one, as the Ruxted editorials have highlighted.  So far, the Liberals seem to going in the right direction while all the Conservatives have done is tried to impede the process for the sake of partisanship - with the election coming, I say it is time to put up or shut up for them....

 

[Edward Campbell]

I, personally, do not think too much of either the Conservative or Liberals defence policies, as most recently published at http://www.conservative.ca/EN/policy_declaration/v)_national_defence_and_security/ and http://www.liberal.ca/issues_e.aspx?itype=57 although I think the Tories are, marginally ahead of the Liberals.

I have a real problem with the Conservatives' tactics.  I remember when Preston Manning came on the scene with a promise to do politics differently" - including, if I recall, to stop opposing just to pass wind and to give credit when credit was due.  That didn't survive very long.  In fairness it was Jean Chrétien who drove the entire agenda with his return to Duplessis style personality driven politics - any attempt to engage 'tit Jean in something like a rational, civil discourse was tossed aside in favour of 'elbows up' dirty, partisan, frequently personal attacks.  It worked and everyone, including Stephen Harper, I'm afraid, learned the lesson.  That does not alter my disdain for Conservative Defence critic Gordon O'Connor.  He was  BGen, I honour him for that, it is a higher rank than I earned so he did some thing, maybe most things better than I.  He also stood for election and was elected - and I honour him of that, too because that is more than I would or (I'm certain) could do.

With those caveats in place I refer back to a recent army.ca editorial, at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35646.0.html the opening sentence bears repeating:

If only 1/4 of what has been reported in the press about the thoughts of Conservative defence critic BGen (Ret'd) Gordon O'Connor is true then the Conservatives are in deep intellectual trouble.

I agreed with that over a month ago, when it was posted, and I agree with it now.

Here is my problem:

"¢ I regard the Liberal Party of Canada as one of Canada's great institutions.  It is the party of Laurier, King and St Laurent.  Liberal governments have done much for which they, and we Canadians, can take legitimate pride.  I also regard the Liberal Party circa 2000 as something akin to a criminal enterprise.  I believe that about 45 years ago the Liberals set out to subvert (yes, I though about that word) the political process in Canada to secure continuing power.  I believe they gave themselves, and their most honourable traditions over to machine politics and the politics of charisma.  In 1967 I vowed to never, ever vote Liberal again until the party had purged itself of what I regarded then and still regard now as subversive elements.  I believe this tendency is, and those elements are still alive and well in the Liberal Party of Canada and therefore I cannot vote Liberal.

"¢ I regard the NDP's positions as inimical to Canada's interests so I cannot vote for them.  The Green Party's positions are worse

"¢ I don't live in Québec - if I did I would not vote BQ for (I hope) obvious reasons.

"¢ The fringe parties led by e.g. Paul Hellyer and right-wing religious fruitcakes will never get my vote - but they are welcome to collect those of the terminally stupid.

"¢ I regard not voting or spoiling my ballot as a weak protest.

That being the case and assuming the Conservatives nominate a half decent candidate (i.e. some poor village need not come to Ottawa Centre Conservative Association HQ to find their missing idiot) I will, probably, still vote Tory.

However, as I think I said elsewhere, my regimental museum donations will go up this year because my regular (since retirement) contributions to the Conservatives will have gone down thanks to BGen (Ret'd) O'Connor.

 

[Pencil Tech]

Yes the Liberals are sick-making in many ways, but we've got to admit, this aircraft plan was dead a couple of days ago and yet Bill Graham still salvaged the Herc part and is making it happen, come hell or high water. You've really got to give this guy credit, and as torn as many of us are about other aspects of Liberal policy and governance, the team of Graham and Hillier is clearly the best hope for the military. Gen Hillier said today that he's happy that we're really going to get the C130J's but that he really needs the Chinooks more. Who wants to bet he'll get them if the LIbs win this election? Who's heard anything but unconstructive waffle going from the Conservatives? When I look at the evidence, it just looks like the Liberals actually care more about defence than the other parties. Hard to believe maybe, but there it is.

 

[Haggis]

Yes the Liberals are sick-making in many ways, but we've got to admit, this aircraft plan was dead a couple of days ago and yet Bill Graham still salvaged the Herc part and is making it happen, come hell or high water. You've really got to give this guy credit, and as torn as many of us are about other aspects of Liberal policy and governance, the team of Graham and Hillier is clearly the best hope for the military. Gen Hillier said today that he's happy that we're really going to get the C130J's but that he really needs the Chinooks more. Who wants to bet he'll get them if the LIbs win this election? Who's heard anything but unconstructive waffle going from the Conservatives? When I look at the evidence, it just looks like the Liberals actually care more about defence than the other parties. Hard to believe maybe, but there it is.

Better the Devil you know thatn the Devil you don't.

I'm hoping against hope:

That if the Preservatives get elected they don't pull a "Chertien and the EH 101" move on our new Hercs.

That maybe one of our aging Hercs could be convrted into an AC130.  Hey, dare to dream, troops!

 

[Pikache]

Make Peter MacKay the leader of the Tories, then they'll be able to salvage themselves. The Conservatives have a bad habit of picking very uncharismatic and often...moronic leaders.

Hrm. As deputy leader of the Conservatives, he's done pretty much f*** all. Only thing he's done for Conservatives really is getting dumped by Stronach and get some PR for Conservatives in the process.

Is the Absolutally Absurd Party still around?

Ohhh... I want to vote for the Other Party! (I wonder how many get that...)

 

[aesop081]

The best question asked by a reporter was "why haven't we been doing this for 20 to 30 years?"   The MND's response - "I haven't been the Minister for 20 years."

I'm still not a big liberal fan but on the subject of Mr. Graham,

We brought him on a flight about 2 weeks ago.   Nothing major, just a 2 hour trip to Victoria with some demostrations along the way.   What most impressed me was that his questions about the aircraft were well thought out.   he listen attentively to our concerns about the curent state of AIMP and upcoming overland operations.   He was very impressed with our new EO/IR system and agreed with us on its limitations ( and how it affects the support we will be able to provide to the army) and seemed genuinely commited to rectifying the situation.   We may not be as f;ashy as the plastic fag jets or make the news like the hercs but he saw that the mision we carry out everyday is a necessary one. He was the third MND that i have met in my career and he is the only one that i would talk to again.........i dont know if he wants to talk to me again though, i totaly confused him on the radar !!

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I used to say that if Peter Mackay were the party leader, I would vote conservative, however after some of the things hes done lately, and some stances he took on some issues the last election, Ive changed my mind.

Hes from new glasgow, about 15 minutes from where I live.. ive met him a few times and thought he was a pretty decent guy... but lately i dont see him being any better or worse than anyone else in parliament really.

They really milked that whole belinda stronach thing for sympathy or something... it was pathetic.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I haven't been attaching any particular value to political promises or nickel-and-dime vote buying for quite some time.

That which can be done in legislation, can be undone in legislation.  That which one party announces as policy, can be co-opted by other parties.  No need to grow attached to anyone because of the noises emanating from their orifices.

 

[Infanteer]

No need to grow attached to anyone because of the noises emanating from their orifices.

Unfortunately, that's all politics runs on....

 

[Infanteer]

That maybe one of our aging Hercs could be convrted into an AC130.   Hey, dare to dream, troops!

Actually, I saw a proposal along the exact same lines (using an older Herc frame for a USMC AC-130) in the Marine Corps Gazette.  Dare to dream indeed!

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Ya know, this isn't a bad idea.  I doubt if we could smoke a full-blown AC-130 conversion by, but a modified variety might be a decent idea.

Surveillance aircraft supporting SF operations are very valuable, as was discussed a long time ago in another thread.  I know we're looking at modifying Auroras to perform this task, much like the US uses Orions...

Why not create one or two "specialist" CC-130s, jammed with surveillance gear and sensors, along with a full comms suite?  You might even want to throw on some fire support, but that would be a hard sell.  The role of this aircraft would be to orbit direct actions and provide real time int, complementing that obtained by ground sensors, EW and the like.  It could feed this info direct to the guys on the ground...

Again, this idea isn't new and has been used to great effect by the US - and I know the Aurora gang is looking at doing something similar.  Would it not work better with a specialized aircraft?

My 2 cents, FWIW