BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017

[Robert0288]

I know very little about reserve training...but on Reg Force BMQ....candidates sleep outside in hoochies.  Is this not the same on Reserve BMQ?
EDIT to add: I guess my point is that it can be done DURING BMQ, but not after?

Res BMQ is condensed, as such there is no field portion.

It sounds like the OP is trying to find the relevant policy so they can go to the field not avoiding it. In my unit I know people have been denied going on field ex's due to not having a BMQ-L even when they have their trades course. It would be a good thing to know if this is a actual policy or something someone made up has stuck.

If you don't mind me asking, what trade?  I know clerks, vtechs, wepons techs, ints etc... all of whom could not get loaded onto anything other than a drivers crse without BMQ(L)

 

[Oompah-Loompah@]

Res BMQ is condensed, as such there is no field portion.

There is a field portion now.

 

[Messorius]

There is a field portion now.

Just finished this, and it allows me to attend exercises in the field. Before that, no go.

ETA as in staying in tents/hoochie.  No problems for the ones where we were sleeping in shacks.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I know prior to the PRes BMQ rewrites (BMQ Common and BMQ LAND) there was a directive from some General which stated those staying in the field had to be SQ qualified or higher...

When I did the QS for the new PRes BMQ Common LFDTS was looking into getting this directive rescinded....

 

[Hunter]

Shamrock I suspect that you are right, and someone along the line once asked 'should non-BMB(L) qualified personnel be allowed to stay overnight in the field, and that was interpreted by someone else as 'our non-BMQ(L) qualified pers won't be staying overnight in the field', which in turn morphed into 'the stack of canforgens a foot high detailling the reasons why non-BMQ(L) qualified members are not authorized to do overnight field training but I just don't have them at my fingertips at this moment'.

Robert0288 the trade is medical assistant, and the exercise in question is a non-tactical medical training exercise. No pyro, no ammo, but sleeping in hooches. 

NFLD Sapper that's what I'm told by some higher in my unit, but nobody ever seems to be able to remember anything about the details of the directive which would provide some insight into where to actually find it or who set this policy.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Like I said with the new BMQ Common the major change was the return of field training so not taking BMQ qual'd pers to the field should now be a mute point...

Again I have not seen the new TP so I don't know if they followed our thinking on the QS.....

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's funny that Scouts and Cadets can sleep in the field but adults can't.

I never did manage to track down actual proof of this elusive order my course WO told us about, I bet he never seen an actual reference either.  One of the many ghost orders probably.

 

[dapaterson]

For Land Forces Central Area, policy is LFCAD 2-2-005: FIELD EMPLOYMENT OF PARTIALLY TRAINED SOLDIERS

It refers to a document I have not been able to dig up, 4985-1 (DAT 5-5-3) dated 12 April 2002.


http://lfca-jtfc.kingston.mil.ca/LFCA-JTFCHQ/Shared%20Documents/080714-UN-LFCA%20JTFC%20HQ-LFCAD%202-2-005-FIELD%20EMP%20OF%20PARTIALLY%20TRAINED%20SOLDIERS.doc

6. Soldiers qualified BMQ only and officers qualified BOTP only will NOT take part in Live Fire Collective Training as participants.  These soldiers may be employed in the field in non-training / non-tactical activities such as general duties, field kitchen or duty personnel so that others may be free to participate in training.  They can also be employed as civilian role players in a FSO scenario and/or similar duties under the following conditions:

a. The soldiers must be supervised by a minimum of one Sergeant or above for every ten untrained soldiers;

b. Strict measures are taken to ensure that their participation does not endanger themselves or others;

c. They are not to be provided with functional weapons; and

d. They are housed under suitable accommodations to allow for sufficient sleep and shelter from the elements.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The words "adult daycare" come to mind. 

 

[dapaterson]

The words "Fieldcraft isn't taught until BMQ-L (SQ) and therefore you would be creating a situation of potential risk to themselves and others" comes to mind.

 

[PanaEng]

For Land Forces Central Area, policy is LFCAD 2-2-005: FIELD EMPLOYMENT OF PARTIALLY TRAINED SOLDIERS

It refers to a document I have not been able to dig up, 4985-1 (DAT 5-5-3) dated 12 April 2002.


http://lfca-jtfc.kingston.mil.ca/LFCA-JTFCHQ/Shared%20Documents/080714-UN-LFCA%20JTFC%20HQ-LFCAD%202-2-005-FIELD%20EMP%20OF%20PARTIALLY%20TRAINED%20SOLDIERS.doc

There we go, thank you!
It allows sufficient latitude for me to make a decision on how to employ them and allow them to participate in virtually every exercise throughout the training year - with sufficient supervision!

This whole thread is kind of sad in that it highlights the lack of "backbone" in our officers and Snr NCOs - we are so afraid of making a simple low-risk decision, with a "proceed with common sense" instruction...
F4k1t, I'm the officer, I made the decision, I'll live with the consequences - carry on. Go LIVE!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The words "Fieldcraft isn't taught until BMQ-L (SQ) and therefore you would be creating a situation of potential risk to themselves and others" comes to mind.

Nothing a 10-20 minute briefing and 'max supervision' can't handle.  I learned lots of stuff being a JAFO in the Recce Tp before my BTT.  No one lost an eye, died or got lost. 

Too much 'treat with kid gloves' thinking is as bad as none of it.  :2c:

 

[BinRat55]

So instead of quoting a whole bunch of "non believers" I will attempt to sum it up once.

First - Call "shenanigans" all you want, but it's entirely true. I never said it was a common practice, nor did I say it was acceptable in MY military mind, but it WAS done. During low-manning points, usually midway into HLTA, replacements are sent over VIA what we call a "TAV". The pers vetting is most often top notch, however when Force Generators go out with a "no fill" it generally gets tossed back with a "fill or justify". SOME units would rather send their OJT than justify why they have 16 Cpls and 15 of them are TCat. It happens. Nuff said.

Second - I didn't so much as take a "run" at you HUNTER, merely stated that IMHO you were wasting your energy on something that (I believe it was alluded to a few ways in this thread) a Sr NCO or Officer should have easily mad a call on - no reference needed. Sr NCO's MUST make judgment calls from time to time and have the nuts to wear the consequences when necessary (as long as that doesn't become the "usual" result...)

Clear as mud? Don't ever doubt my resolve - I got shoulders. They may hurt more now than when I was younger, but darnit, I still got 'em. ANYONE feeling like they still want to disagree with me, your option and prerogative, but please do it offline.

 

[Danjanou]

Binrat I personally wasn't calling BS. I was interested in some details of the upgefucking that may have caused this.

Saw it years ago, sending an unqualified reservist to 4CMBG for REFORGER, which while not quite he same as the Sandbox was again someone not doing their job with due diligence. I found out about it in the fall after he returned to Canada and transferred to my company. I was the CSM when the Pte in question was brought to me by his Section Comd, re a pay problem. Seems he hadn't been paid Class A or B since the beginning of the summer whenhe'd been enrolled. Five months and nada, either he decided not to make waves, or had mentioned it and no one had followed up.  A little digging and a few calls and I found the reason he wasn't being paid. He wasn't enrolled  yet. : Did his recruit (GMT/BMQ)  and then was sent overseas ( without QL3 Inf) as a civvy.... go figure.

Incidentally he's still in , and I hope he got paid for his last tour. I know this time he was qualified for it. 8)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sending untrained, non BMQ qualified soldiers would be in direct contravention to;

LFCAD 2-2-005: FIELD EMPLOYMENT OF PARTIALLY TRAINED SOLDIERS

Especially-

c.  They are not to be provided with functional weapons


In what compacity were these completely untrained soldiers serving in Afghanistan?
Were they given weapons?




EITS, I agree about the kid gloves thing.  Between fat platoon and this rule maybe we're not cultivating a strong culture of recruits.

I think the problem with this rule is that when it starts filtering down the chain of command people end up changing it on a whim. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Between fat unfit platoon and this rule maybe we're not cultivating a strong culture of recruits.

Little presumptuous of you...

 

[BinRat55]

In what capacity were these completely untrained soldiers serving in Afghanistan?
Were they given weapons?

Slow down, take a breath - I never said "completely untrained". IOT deploy (even years ago) there was still training. Said training never includes career courses like QL3. It DOES include PWTIII at a minimum. Yes, they were given weapons. I trusted them completely on the range or even in a firefight. But not in my QM... I have had completely topped up-trained MCpls who shook violently when attempting to clear a 9mm for the first time.

The context here was intended for BMQ(L) training - SQ (Soldier Qualification), not friggin Bill Murray in "Stripes"!!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I have had completely topped up-trained MCpls who shook violently when attempting to clear a 9mm for the first time.

I was at a HQ, and was part of range staff yearly.  We had a new G3 Ops posted in and while trying to explain to him the...level of....trg/ability...the avg pers in the HQ had WRT to rangework, etc...a MWO/CPO2 rank level pers stuck her head in the door and said "Sir, the grenade TOETs tonight, a few ppl were wondering if those are done with live grenades or the fake ones".  There was a few seconds of silence, and then one of the WOs in our group looked at the G3 Ops and said "and there is your audience sir".    :warstory:

That night while conducting refreshers/TOETs, I had a MCpl who wore 2 rows of ribbons (4 UN tours) shaking at the thought of holding an inert/dummy grenade.  :

 

[Jarnhamar]

I have had completely topped up-trained MCpls who shook violently when attempting to clear a 9mm for the first time.

Ha, that's exactly what happens to me when I try to claw and bite my way through the DRIMIS training modules.

 

[BinRat55]

Aww now you've gone and said the "D" word.  :facepalm: Profanity is not allowed on this site. I quit!!