BioChemical Weapons Testing During the COLD WAR...

[J.B. Stone]

Hi!

I'm new here and thought some of your participants may want to avail themselves of the information I have amassed regarding Human Test Subjects by the Canadian Government during the Cold War:

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14579

There is also EXTENSIVE information on Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium Munitions, Gulf War Syndrome, and PTSD....

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=55

Thanks,

J.B. Stone, USN 1967-70

 

[GAP]

Are you also going to insist on dissimulating the information the same way you suggested on FreeDominion....

I will prepare a proglogue for this forum and post that next.

While I appreciate your concern, it has been determined that the best method for distributing this information is to have it be a "read only" forum.

 

[J.B. Stone]

I don't UNDERSTAND your reply.

I simply posted the information via LINKS that go back to the original set of ARCHIVES.

They were MADE archives to avoid any spurious "conversation" which usually does NOT "add" to the information.

People are FREE to "cut and paste" on Free Dominion and "comment" to their heart's content...as would be expected here.

It took me FIVE YEARS to assemble what information is there and it has become a VALUABLE resource for Veterans attempting to square things with their respective governments.  I do NOT intend to "editorialize" here as I am a stranger to the Canadian Military except as how they play into various issues regarding AO, Depleted Uranium Munitions, Bio-Chemical Weapons Testing, etc.

If you wish to "move" the information, that is FINE with me.  I just wanted to make it AVAILABLE.  I will NOT be updating this thread, except as might be requested.  The ARCHIVE will stay on Free Dominion and I see no value in "cluttering" your site with duplicate posts.  IF a person is particularly interested in a certain type of information, I believe they can have Free Dominion "notify" them when a new post comes up on a given thread.

Besides the articles themselves there are EXTENSIVE links to other sites.  I've basically "vetted" all the information so that there should be SOME value to each post.  The only thing I HAVEN'T done is attempted to perfect the chronological order of the posted information, so bear THAT in mind if you are researching a particular topic.  Therefor, some of the information early on in the various threads MAY be countermanded or contradicted by later posts....such is life.

If anyone thinks I've omitted valuable information that they have access to, PLEASE notify me here and I will correct the oversight.  This is an ONGOING project.

THANKS,

J.B. Stone, USN 1967-70

 

[1feral1]

Hey JB,

Why are you bringing this topic up in the first place?

What is your overall political agenda, and why have you come to this site to peddle this material.

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

 

[J.B. Stone]

Hey JB,

Why are you bringing this topic up in the first place?

What is your overall political agenda, and why have you come to this site to peddle this material.

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

Did you happen to read any of what was posted previously....???

What is YOUR specific political agenda...???  I am offering straightforward INFORMATION, nothing more.  If you have NO interest in such topics, then WHY are you so strenuously attacking me...???

The information is FREE.  I don't make a DIME off of "peddling" the truth, as YOU put it.

~~~~~

You're sending very mixed signals....you claim to be "down under" and also in Baghdad, which makes no sense.  IF you are saying that you are an Australian Serviceman who fought for the Coalition, thank you.

Since none of your questions regards any specific portion of the information offered, then I really CAN'T answer you in any satisfactory fashion.

 

[1feral1]

Attacking? Far from it. Site policy has personal attacks warranting disciplinary action up to and including a ban.

Simply making a freindly query, and seeking honest straight forward answers.

You are being hostile for no reason.

Welcome to the site, but remember, you are new, come into our home, and then rant. You can't get a second chance at a first impression.

I have read all your posts and examined your links. I am not condemming you, again asking a question.

I am in Australia, a serving member of the Australian Army, as I have dual nationality. Have a read of my profile. Yes I am a 'OIF' Coalition Veteran of the Australian commitment to the fight against terrorism, Operation Catalyst. I was in Baghdad in 2006-2007 for 207 days, now safely at home, and still serving.

Enjoy the site, but loosen your webbing and relax. As a USN Vet of Viet Nam era, we may be strangers, but you are among friends, so take off the helmet and flak jacket.

 

[J.B. Stone]

Please QUOTE the passage you classify as a "rant"...???

YOU are the one who instantly attempted to POLITICIZE my efforts....now, if that's NOT what you meant by asking me what my political agenda is....then, I 'm missing something....or you are being intellectually dishonest.

I find that OFFENSIVE, since I'm simply offering DATA.

If you have NO interest in that data...which I conclude since you offer NO communication or evidence of having READ any of it...I STILL want to know why the third degree....???....comes across quite presumptuous.

If you or anyone ELSE on this site questions the veracity of any of the sources I've quoted, I'll do my best to expllain why an INDIVIDUAL piece of information is valuable or "valid".

Other than that, I will continue to speak clearly and directly.

THANKS,

J.B., USN  1967-70

 

[Gimpy]

You have to slow down a bit. You're coming off as very combative and it will do nothing but hurt your message overall. Wes wasn't jumping on you as he pointed out two posts up so you shouldn't jump on him for being inquisitive. Its also not very courteous to capitalize words in your sentences. Would you do that while speaking? You wouldn't say Please QUOTE(yelling) the passage. You just have to calm down and have a nice well-mannered chat. No one doubts that you have a lot of good information to bring to the site, you just have to do so in a less defensive manner.

 

[1feral1]

Please QUOTE the passage you classify as a "rant"...???

YOU are the one who instantly attempted to POLITICIZE my efforts....now, if that's NOT what you meant by asking me what my political agenda is....then, I 'm missing something....or you are being intellectually dishonest.

I find that OFFENSIVE, since I'm simply offering DATA.

If you have NO interest in that data...which I conclude since you offer NO communication or evidence of having READ any of it...I STILL want to know why the third degree....???....comes across quite presumptuous.

If you or anyone ELSE on this site questions the veracity of any of the sources I've quoted, I'll do my best to expllain why an INDIVIDUAL piece of information is valuable or "valid".

Other than that, I will continue to speak clearly and directly.

THANKS,

J.B., USN  1967-70

Wow!

Offensive? I guess you might have to write your Member of Congress if you are offended then, or better yet, complain here to the moderators.

As for rants, take a look at the yelling and attitude, combined or on its own, that spells rant, not clear and direct.

You are out of line. I was polite, you seem to want to go for my jugular.

You do have some issues (its fast becoming obvious), and keep going, I am sure your TI here will be cut short.

If you really want to have a go at me, please, and at least do it by PM's, as this thread is fast becoming a waste of bandwidth.

In the meanwhile, I am sure the mods will lock this soon enough, if this thread continues to be a pissing contest.

Remember, attitude means everything. Your new, and its your integrity on here not mine.

Have a good evening or morning wherever you are.

EDITed for clarity

 

[J.B. Stone]

I see.......NOW it's my "integrity" you attack.

BRAVO!

When, PRECISELY, did I lie....???

As for "shouting"....grow up.

I CAPTILIZE words to make SURE you notice them.

Nice Welcome, though.

........oh.........

Just CURIOUS.....

did you EVER intend to actually read any of the information I made available...???

Or do you just contend that it's ALL lies based on your deep investigation.....???

I find it FASCINATING that you haveven't made even the SLIGHTEST attempt to review that which you criticize and politicize from the outset.

I guess if someone isn't "into" being browbeaten, then they MUST be "offensive".  Funny, I don't see you having a single BIT of impetus for your attacks....but, DO continue....they're very informative.

~~~~~~~~

at some point, you even intimated that "we aren't that different"....well, I got a GOOD laugh out of that one.

All I've done is asked you to give me a REASON for your hostile attitude.

haven't seen one YET.

~~~~~~~~

What I find FASCINATING is that the forum to which I provided links has been viewed by over 485,000 people and only the most virulent anti-war types have had "issue" with the information there.  There are people [mostly from Canada & the U.S., you're the first who's identified themselves as having any connection to Australia] who have had long-standing issues with various theatres of combat which I've brought attention to and some have even been partially resolved.  Except for getting into rather personal territory, I can't ascribe any particular instance of a given piece of information that was helpful to a particular Veteran....that's for THEM to do.  However, I CAN say I've gotten messages of thanks.  This is people's LIVES we're talking about here, not some "political agenda" as you call it.  If that's of no interest to you, then cease haranguing me....because I'm NOT going to stop just because you throw out some stumbling blocks in the manner of a personal grudge.

People from the 1950's on have been greatly affected by what I've chronicled in the South Pacific, Vietnam, two wars in the Gulf, etc.  If I save ONE life or positively assist a few people even a TEENY bit, then I've succeeded.

If you manage to block my efforts here by dragging this conversation down to the level of unfounded accusations and recriminations, then let that be YOUR glory.

I couldn't answer right away since I've been busy attending to medical appointments.

Thank You for your warm and gracious comments.

 

[1feral1]

I had asked you to PM me if you wanted to have a  go, and you did not.

With how you are carrying yourself, you won't last, and you leave by your own demise.

For the record JB, I do have a connection to Canada. I served 18 yrs, 11 months and 22 days as a member of the CF before coming here. I was also born there. There are many Australian members on here also, so I am far from alone.

I did take the time to read your posts and links.

Mods, this thread is going nowhere but down the gurgler, perhaps its time to lock it up.

Why one can't ask a simple question, and then ends up being ambused by one guy who is on the same side.

Seinfeld quote "serenity now"

 

[Greymatters]

While the topic of past military practices is always of interest, and you have a lot of material about CW in one place, I find that the way you've laid it out isnt very practical.  You've got material refering to programs in US, Russia, and Canada all lumped together with terrorism and conspiracy theories.  There's also a lot of inunendo in there mixed up with facts.  In the end, wouldn't it be a lot more impressive if you reorganized it into a single coherent document? 

 

[armyguy62]

I thought that Wesleys initial statements were a little harsh, til I read the attached site.  It seems to me there is more chaff than wheat here. Lots of inuendo, personal stories and historical articles (I don't like our WW2 and later bio/chem history, but I do UNDERSTAND it). Perspective is everything. We are not a bunch of naive, war loving children, despite what most people think of military personnel. (yes I did see the USN after your name, and frankly that raises more questions than it answers).  Provide me with a well reasoned argument of your beliefs and I will respect them, though I may disagree with you.

Wesley..... I do not know you, but I hate you for having the pleasure of living down under.

 

[1feral1]

I thought that Wesleys initial statements were a little harsh, til I read the attached site.  It seems to me there is more chaff than wheat here. Lots of inuendo, personal stories and historical articles (I don't like our WW2 and later bio/chem history, but I do UNDERSTAND it). Perspective is everything. We are not a bunch of naive, war loving children, despite what most people think of military personnel. (yes I did see the USN after your name, and frankly that raises more questions than it answers).  Provide me with a well reasoned argument of your beliefs and I will respect them, though I may disagree with you.

Wesley..... I do not know you, but I hate you for having the pleasure of living down under.

There is nothing wrong with being up front and direct. I don't beat around the bush, and I am far from being a PC whipping boy  ;D My query was genuine, and he was the one that got his g-string in a knot.

I call a spade a shovel. For me attitude means everything, and the abuse I got from Stone, well you can read it and make up your own mind.

I had a simple polite query, and I see you can see why I queried him in the first place.

People with hidden or obvious political agendas have issues, and in his case attitudes to boot.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[armyguy62]

Yeah...... I still hate you for living down under....... but then my forehead is smaller than yours..... we all have a cross to bear

 

[tomahawk6]

Hi!

I'm new here and thought some of your participants may want to avail themselves of the information I have amassed regarding Human Test Subjects by the Canadian Government during the Cold War:

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14579

There is also EXTENSIVE information on Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium Munitions, Gulf War Syndrome, and PTSD....

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=55

Thanks,

J.B. Stone, USN 1967-70

Were you a test subject ?

 

[armyguy62]

Wes... I think you need a HUG()

 

[MedTechStudent]

Oh so we're admitting we want to hug Wes now? 

 

[armyguy62]

ALL I am saying is.... if Wes NEEDs a hug and I am standing near him with my arms in the "HUG" position I would be willing to engage the target.   

 

[MedTechStudent]

ALL I am saying is.... if Wes NEEDs a hug and I am standing near him with my arms in the "HUG" position I would be willing to engage the target.   

HA!  ;D