BILL C-201 RCMP/Military Pensions passes second reading

[Redeye]

This is just it - if this is approved, the pension fund will immediately be grievously underfunded, and guess who the money will have to come from - the current contributors - pension contribution amounts will SOAR to cover the massive shortfall this will create.  There's nothing nefarious here at all, despite what all these ill-informed groups seem to think - they didn't pay for the benefits they're trying to claim and therefore shouldn't be entitled to receive them.  What they get prior to 65 is their normal pension amount (which they continue to receive at 65) and a bridge benefit which is given to them until they are able to draw CPP which is part of their plan.  The CFSA like most pensions is designed to integrate with the CPP.  This is political hay being made over a load of ignorance.

Quag,
I'm just curious, how do you feel that you have the authority to state that the 3,000+ members at CFB Petawawa wish to contribute three or four hundred dollars more per pay to their pension fund?

 

[Occam]

You do realize that you're breaking the law in doing so?  No polite weasel words around to dance around that fact.

But we're now well and truly off topic...

Well, whaddya know.  The Special Voting Rules say I can only vote where my SOR says I reside.  I learned something today.  However, I doubt I'll be breaking any rocks over it, since the integrity of the "one person, one vote" principle is intact.  Nevertheless, I'll submit the SOR amendment to make Elections Canada happy...

 

[Occam]

This is just it - if this is approved, the pension fund will immediately be grievously underfunded, and guess who the money will have to come from - the current contributors - pension contribution amounts will SOAR to cover the massive shortfall this will create.  There's nothing nefarious here at all, despite what all these ill-informed groups seem to think - they didn't pay for the benefits they're trying to claim and therefore shouldn't be entitled to receive them.  What they get prior to 65 is their normal pension amount (which they continue to receive at 65) and a bridge benefit which is given to them until they are able to draw CPP which is part of their plan.  The CFSA like most pensions is designed to integrate with the CPP.  This is political hay being made over a load of ignorance.

Something I'm curious about - all the kerfluffle associated with Bill C-78 and the pension surpluses in the CFSA, PSSA and RCMPSA.  One of the government's assertions is that the pension plans are defined-benefit plans, and that even if the funds were "given back" to the pension plans, there's no authority to give anyone benefits different than what the legislation states.

If C-201 goes ahead, wouldn't that constitute a change to the definition of benefits, and put the government on the hook for it?

 

[Michael OLeary]

This is just it - if this is approved, the pension fund will immediately be grievously underfunded, and guess who the money will have to come from - the current contributors - pension contribution amounts will SOAR to cover the massive shortfall this will create.  There's nothing nefarious here at all, despite what all these ill-informed groups seem to think - they didn't pay for the benefits they're trying to claim and therefore shouldn't be entitled to receive them.  What they get prior to 65 is their normal pension amount (which they continue to receive at 65) and a bridge benefit which is given to them until they are able to draw CPP which is part of their plan.  The CFSA like most pensions is designed to integrate with the CPP.  This is political hay being made over a load of ignorance.

Ah, but it won't be underfunded.  No more than the approval of a Reserve Pension created any immediate shortfall. 

The ignorance of those who refuse to accept that the pension plan was always a joint plan won't force the payout of entitlements that weren't paid for through contributions while serving.  Imagine the public and media hue and cry if the Government even considered doing that. 

The result will be a plan under which CF members will have to pay into a revised CFSA PLUS CPP.  All those who are current beneficiaries, who who want to purchase time served to date, will have to submit to a calculation to top up their contributions, ya gotta pay to play - just like those working on their Reserve Pensions.

 

[dapaterson]

Occam:

To go further off on a tangent here, perhaps we need to adopt the method of the US military - where you pay state income tax based on your declared residence.  That would encourage folks to keep their SOR up-to-date - get a posting to Alberta, declare it to be your residence, and pay Alberta income tax rates for the rest of your career...

 

[Quag]

Quag,
I'm just curious, how do you feel that you have the authority to state that the 3,000+ members at CFB Petawawa wish to contribute three or four hundred dollars more per pay to their pension fund?

I don't feel I have the authority.  Where are you getting these retro pay numbers from?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I don't feel I have the authority.  Where are you getting these retro pay numbers from?

They are a guestamite on my part from when the Ontario Corrections looked at things like "25 and out" or reducing us to the "80" [age+service] factor instead of the "90" factor we have now.

..and just so you know, those numbers ARE LESS than it would have cost us. You [military] retire sooner therefore you would also have a longer "bridge" to age 65, so budget even more dollars for it.

 

[Long in the tooth]

LOL, just had to post - "TOWING the Party line" - that must be some big boat she's driving.....