Bilingualism levels at defence HQ 'insufficient,' audit says
- Thread starter Edward Campbell
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All right, got to pitch in...
Please don't make this article the reason of a FRANCO vs ANGLO war. There is no point to it, french is the other official language, live with it!
Now, as to whether the CF needs to be completely bilingual, I think not, especially if this would be at the expense of operational requirement. I am quite happy at the idea that our flag officers and staff officers are spending time organizing things so that we have bullets in our guns, fuel in our aircrafts and water out of our submarines. In contrast, I would be quite upset to know that our "grown ups" are spending 1/2 of their days learning french, just to please a politician (and a few hardcore bilingualism fanatics).
Just before I get too much flak coming from "either side", I was born in La Belle Province, and speak both languages fluently.
Cheers,
Laps
Please don't make this article the reason of a FRANCO vs ANGLO war. There is no point to it, french is the other official language, live with it!
Now, as to whether the CF needs to be completely bilingual, I think not, especially if this would be at the expense of operational requirement. I am quite happy at the idea that our flag officers and staff officers are spending time organizing things so that we have bullets in our guns, fuel in our aircrafts and water out of our submarines. In contrast, I would be quite upset to know that our "grown ups" are spending 1/2 of their days learning french, just to please a politician (and a few hardcore bilingualism fanatics).
Just before I get too much flak coming from "either side", I was born in La Belle Province, and speak both languages fluently.
Cheers,
Laps
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One thing I see from this report is not that there not enough francophone senior officers, I am sure there are many (probably most) who are fluidly bilingual.
I believe its that everyone is choosing to speak English to ensure that no essential info is lost in translation.
Also, anyone tell me what this is?
I believe its that everyone is choosing to speak English to ensure that no essential info is lost in translation.
Also, anyone tell me what this is?
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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Awareness sessions - something where people waste the tax payers' money and their time to attend a seminar about something they are well aware of to keep some hack employed perhaps?
MM
MM
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Top brass told to be bilingual by next year
DND using military requirements as excuse for not training staff at headquarters, language audit finds
Dave Rogers
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, February 09, 2006
The Department of National Defence must stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid meeting bilingual requirements, Canada's Commissioner of Official Languages said yesterday, recommending that all officers with the rank of colonel or navy captain and above be bilingual by next year.
Dyane Adam said yesterday that more supervisors at Department of National Defence headquarters should be bilingual in order to respect the language rights of employees. In her latest audit, focused exclusively on management at DND, she criticized military supervisors at the headquarters on Colonel By Drive for failing to provide a truly bilingual environment.
Ms. Adam's audit, released this week, shows that 42 per cent of military officers in bilingual positions speak French and English, compared with 82 per cent throughout the federal public service. Almost 75 per cent of civilian employees are in bilingual positions at headquarters.
Ms. Adam said defence officials have to stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid language training for headquarters staff. "Operational requirements has been the reason given by the Defence Department over time.
"After 35 years of official bilingualism, most institutions have increased their bilingual capacity because they have invested in training, but we do not see that progress at National Defence.
"This is where the Defence Department has to be serious. It is not enough to say that the positions are bilingual -- the department has to ensure that the incumbents in those jobs have the skills."
The official languages report recommends that by 2007, bilingualism be a requirement for promotion for all officers who rise to the rank of colonel or naval captain. Ms. Adam said the requirement for promotion already exists, but DND has set no deadline.
Military officials, however, fired back, saying they cannot accept Ms. Adam's methods of measuring bilingual levels or the conclusions she reaches on the basis of those methods.
"We do not measure bilingualism or any other qualification by position -- we measure them by each military unit," said Lt.-Col. Brigid Dooley-Tremblay, the officer in charge of official languages at DND, arguing that it is unfair to apply the standards used to measure civilian departments to National Defence.
"We recruit people from all 10 provinces and three territories," she said. "We rotate these people through our national headquarters, but don't recruit bilingual people to spend their whole careers there.
"We do not manage our units by each position, so it is fallacious to argue that only 40 per cent of positions at headquarters are staffed by bilingual people."
The audit report is based on a survey of 1,883 of 3,450 defence employees at the headquarters between November 2004 and June 2005.
The official languages commissioner's office conducted the audit after receiving more than 40 complaints from employees about DND's failure to provide a bilingual work environment.
Ms. Adam said DND employees complained about not being supervised in their own language and a lack of French software and computer keyboards that provide French accents.
"We are telling people who are recruited that they can work in the language of their choice, but we are not delivering on that promise," she said. "The linguistic rights of young francophones are not being fully respected."
The report quotes one unnamed French-speaking employee as saying: "Bilingualism exists only for francophones and a minority of anglophones."
An English-speaking worker told investigators that French is seldom used and English always seems to predominate.
Official languages officials said middle managers and supervisors at DND headquarters do not always respect the language rights of employees or encourage them to communicate in the language of their choice. "Moreover, some managers that we interviewed stated that operational requirements took precedence over linguistic responsibilities," the report said.
"The studies we conducted at National Defence show that English is used most of the time as the operational and administrative language and that francophones have little opportunity to work in French, except in bilingual locations where their proportion is quite high."
For her part, Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said official languages measurements that count bilingual positions in the public service don't accurately measure bilingualism in the Canadian Forces. She said commanding officers are given the resources they require -- including bilingual personnel -- considered necessary to accomplish their missions.
"What we should be measuring is whether bilingual service is provided when and where required. We are adopting a new way of measuring performance that will post a percentage of bilingual personnel into units.
"It makes no sense to count up the number of bilingual people in bilingual positions in the military and use that as a measure of whether you are providing bilingual service at the counter."
Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said supervisory employees require only intermediate French. She added all officers of the rank of lieutenant-general and higher are bilingual and 70 per cent of newly-promoted colonels and naval captains are bilingual.
"We are targeting the people who have to be bilingual. Right now we are going through an extensive transformation in the Canadian Forces and are not in a position to simply send all of our brigadier generals on language training."
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=ba1e0fa2-3661-4b5a-bec3-c5a68f58b297
DND using military requirements as excuse for not training staff at headquarters, language audit finds
Dave Rogers
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, February 09, 2006
The Department of National Defence must stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid meeting bilingual requirements, Canada's Commissioner of Official Languages said yesterday, recommending that all officers with the rank of colonel or navy captain and above be bilingual by next year.
Dyane Adam said yesterday that more supervisors at Department of National Defence headquarters should be bilingual in order to respect the language rights of employees. In her latest audit, focused exclusively on management at DND, she criticized military supervisors at the headquarters on Colonel By Drive for failing to provide a truly bilingual environment.
Ms. Adam's audit, released this week, shows that 42 per cent of military officers in bilingual positions speak French and English, compared with 82 per cent throughout the federal public service. Almost 75 per cent of civilian employees are in bilingual positions at headquarters.
Ms. Adam said defence officials have to stop using military requirements as an excuse to avoid language training for headquarters staff. "Operational requirements has been the reason given by the Defence Department over time.
"After 35 years of official bilingualism, most institutions have increased their bilingual capacity because they have invested in training, but we do not see that progress at National Defence.
"This is where the Defence Department has to be serious. It is not enough to say that the positions are bilingual -- the department has to ensure that the incumbents in those jobs have the skills."
The official languages report recommends that by 2007, bilingualism be a requirement for promotion for all officers who rise to the rank of colonel or naval captain. Ms. Adam said the requirement for promotion already exists, but DND has set no deadline.
Military officials, however, fired back, saying they cannot accept Ms. Adam's methods of measuring bilingual levels or the conclusions she reaches on the basis of those methods.
"We do not measure bilingualism or any other qualification by position -- we measure them by each military unit," said Lt.-Col. Brigid Dooley-Tremblay, the officer in charge of official languages at DND, arguing that it is unfair to apply the standards used to measure civilian departments to National Defence.
"We recruit people from all 10 provinces and three territories," she said. "We rotate these people through our national headquarters, but don't recruit bilingual people to spend their whole careers there.
"We do not manage our units by each position, so it is fallacious to argue that only 40 per cent of positions at headquarters are staffed by bilingual people."
The audit report is based on a survey of 1,883 of 3,450 defence employees at the headquarters between November 2004 and June 2005.
The official languages commissioner's office conducted the audit after receiving more than 40 complaints from employees about DND's failure to provide a bilingual work environment.
Ms. Adam said DND employees complained about not being supervised in their own language and a lack of French software and computer keyboards that provide French accents.
"We are telling people who are recruited that they can work in the language of their choice, but we are not delivering on that promise," she said. "The linguistic rights of young francophones are not being fully respected."
The report quotes one unnamed French-speaking employee as saying: "Bilingualism exists only for francophones and a minority of anglophones."
An English-speaking worker told investigators that French is seldom used and English always seems to predominate.
Official languages officials said middle managers and supervisors at DND headquarters do not always respect the language rights of employees or encourage them to communicate in the language of their choice. "Moreover, some managers that we interviewed stated that operational requirements took precedence over linguistic responsibilities," the report said.
"The studies we conducted at National Defence show that English is used most of the time as the operational and administrative language and that francophones have little opportunity to work in French, except in bilingual locations where their proportion is quite high."
For her part, Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said official languages measurements that count bilingual positions in the public service don't accurately measure bilingualism in the Canadian Forces. She said commanding officers are given the resources they require -- including bilingual personnel -- considered necessary to accomplish their missions.
"What we should be measuring is whether bilingual service is provided when and where required. We are adopting a new way of measuring performance that will post a percentage of bilingual personnel into units.
"It makes no sense to count up the number of bilingual people in bilingual positions in the military and use that as a measure of whether you are providing bilingual service at the counter."
Lt.-Col. Dooley-Tremblay said supervisory employees require only intermediate French. She added all officers of the rank of lieutenant-general and higher are bilingual and 70 per cent of newly-promoted colonels and naval captains are bilingual.
"We are targeting the people who have to be bilingual. Right now we are going through an extensive transformation in the Canadian Forces and are not in a position to simply send all of our brigadier generals on language training."
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=ba1e0fa2-3661-4b5a-bec3-c5a68f58b297
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"operational requirements took precedence over linguistic responsibilities"
Noooooooooo, the horror. How DARE the military think that overseas operations and international peacekeeping are a higher priority than classroom work. Who do they think they are.
The official languages commissioner seriously needs to get his head out of his arse, this is beyond ridiculous. Could you imagine what would happen if every officer Col and up spent the entirety of next year doing nothing but language training?!
Noooooooooo, the horror. How DARE the military think that overseas operations and international peacekeeping are a higher priority than classroom work. Who do they think they are.
The official languages commissioner seriously needs to get his head out of his arse, this is beyond ridiculous. Could you imagine what would happen if every officer Col and up spent the entirety of next year doing nothing but language training?!
Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
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This morning, the hosts of an Ottawa morning radio show were commenting about this story. They, too saw the connection between it's relaease date and the new fiscal year. They also qustioned how much French is used in other HQ's.... like Kandahar.
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Having recently completed Second Language training, I have formed my own opinions about the requirement for bilingualism. As an officer who will be responsible for both anglo and francophones, it is my job to be able to communicate effectively and lead them- in either language.
I remember the National Post did a special on the anniversary of Nelson and the battle of Trafalgar. A few days later there was a letter to the editor about it. The person said that Nelson would not be a household name if he was Canadian. Admiral Nelson spent years trying to learn french, but was not successful. He would have never been in that position if he was Canadian. Kind of a mute point considering the differences between the two countries, but it did bring a smirk to a several of our faces.
SLT is like visiting the proctologist. Some like it, most would rather be doing something else, but everyone pretty much agrees that it is a necessity to keep ones career healthy.
Can anyone else tell be what other country has an official languages department, and does annual audits of bilingualism? Thank goodness there are not other more pressing issues in Canada.
I remember the National Post did a special on the anniversary of Nelson and the battle of Trafalgar. A few days later there was a letter to the editor about it. The person said that Nelson would not be a household name if he was Canadian. Admiral Nelson spent years trying to learn french, but was not successful. He would have never been in that position if he was Canadian. Kind of a mute point considering the differences between the two countries, but it did bring a smirk to a several of our faces.
SLT is like visiting the proctologist. Some like it, most would rather be doing something else, but everyone pretty much agrees that it is a necessity to keep ones career healthy.
Can anyone else tell be what other country has an official languages department, and does annual audits of bilingualism? Thank goodness there are not other more pressing issues in Canada.
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More from today’s Ottawa Citizen, reproduced under the fair dealing provisons of the Copyright Act.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=12b51170-9ff8-4660-ac4a-13bd3c1a203e
Let’s hear our new MND on this one.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=12b51170-9ff8-4660-ac4a-13bd3c1a203e
Let’s hear our new MND on this one.
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Bograt said:
Norway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language
Norwegian Language Council
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Language_Council
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Just my opinion
The requirement to parlez vous is on a sliding scale - the higher up you go the more you have to parlez
Its also related to contact with the other language group
Some of my young relatives in Quebec speak both and some can`t get the hang of it.
In short - if you want it - you can get it
Where DND falls flat on their face is helping you get a second language skill - eg: you`ll have the time of your life if you can speak to the locals at Vimy Ridge - or Dieppe - or Juno Beach ------ and you`ll have a dull cloud in your head if you can`t.
So for those of you (most of you) with the can do attitude which marks most Canadian Soldiers as as hard to handle as a pure bred puppy who just wants to hunt ducks and to heck with his master- heres`s my idea
Download the language MP3 files here
Check this out - French language MP3 files you cna download and put on an MP3player. The second one seems very well done
http://www.frenchpodcasting.com/
http://www.frenchpodclass.com/ --------- > this is the best one
Run through them all
Then bug your chain of command silly to get on franco trg --- you`ll have a skill that no body can take away from you and will enhance your army life.
Languages aren't for everybody - but a little effort will payoff. If nothing else you'll be able to follow Hockey Night in Canada in French - or Grand Prix Racing - just watch the news
Believe me - the French Weather Channel Girls are very easy on the eyes
The requirement to parlez vous is on a sliding scale - the higher up you go the more you have to parlez
Its also related to contact with the other language group
Some of my young relatives in Quebec speak both and some can`t get the hang of it.
In short - if you want it - you can get it
Where DND falls flat on their face is helping you get a second language skill - eg: you`ll have the time of your life if you can speak to the locals at Vimy Ridge - or Dieppe - or Juno Beach ------ and you`ll have a dull cloud in your head if you can`t.
So for those of you (most of you) with the can do attitude which marks most Canadian Soldiers as as hard to handle as a pure bred puppy who just wants to hunt ducks and to heck with his master- heres`s my idea
Download the language MP3 files here
Check this out - French language MP3 files you cna download and put on an MP3player. The second one seems very well done
http://www.frenchpodcasting.com/
http://www.frenchpodclass.com/ --------- > this is the best one
Run through them all
Then bug your chain of command silly to get on franco trg --- you`ll have a skill that no body can take away from you and will enhance your army life.
Languages aren't for everybody - but a little effort will payoff. If nothing else you'll be able to follow Hockey Night in Canada in French - or Grand Prix Racing - just watch the news
Believe me - the French Weather Channel Girls are very easy on the eyes
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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The argument that senior leaders should be able to lead in both official languages is sound.
The argument that operations override other considerations is sound.
We want bilingualism, but we also want the first selection criterion for our commanders and operators to be the aptitude to achieve the aim with the least consumption of resources and fewest possible casualities.
If operational exigencies are impacting language training negatively, there are two readily obvious alternatives:
1) Reduce optempo.
2) Increase personnel funding to the CF in order to increase the number of people holding senior ranks in order to maintain the critical fraction of people who must be undergoing language training at any particular time.
Reducing military aptitude selection in order to accommodate a larger number of fluently bilingual people is an option, but not an ethical option.
The argument that operations override other considerations is sound.
We want bilingualism, but we also want the first selection criterion for our commanders and operators to be the aptitude to achieve the aim with the least consumption of resources and fewest possible casualities.
If operational exigencies are impacting language training negatively, there are two readily obvious alternatives:
1) Reduce optempo.
2) Increase personnel funding to the CF in order to increase the number of people holding senior ranks in order to maintain the critical fraction of people who must be undergoing language training at any particular time.
Reducing military aptitude selection in order to accommodate a larger number of fluently bilingual people is an option, but not an ethical option.
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The operations aren`t where the gap is - the people lacking language skills should get with it just like we all have to get with it on the Express Trg.
Its easy to say and harder to do - somewhere they have to pick it up - early is better.
Or - how about - you don`t fit the language achievement profile - and have not demonstrated a desire to meet it so your capped for promotions until you do.
Tell them early and there will be a beeline to upgrade.
Can`t be done you say? How do immigrants learn then -----------> MOTIVATION is how
To say this ain`t right (Offical language Police) or Op Tempo made me do it is avoiding the question.
Its easy to say and harder to do - somewhere they have to pick it up - early is better.
Or - how about - you don`t fit the language achievement profile - and have not demonstrated a desire to meet it so your capped for promotions until you do.
Tell them early and there will be a beeline to upgrade.
Can`t be done you say? How do immigrants learn then -----------> MOTIVATION is how
To say this ain`t right (Offical language Police) or Op Tempo made me do it is avoiding the question.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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This Dyane Adam, commissioner of official languages, also wants the Department of National Defence to meet other bilingual requirements, such as providing computer keyboards that provide French accents. I don't know about many of you, but I have noticed a lot of the new DND keyboards have extra keys on them. For instance, there is a new key found between the left Shift Key and the "Z" Key. If you type with two fingers this may not prove a problem, but if you are a skilled or rather skilled typist, who uses all fingers and thumbs, that extra key gets in the way. Instead of typing.....say.... "Here I am.", I land up typing something like this: "/ere / am." Now, take a skilled clerk or secretary and have them type several pages of documents and then wonder why they have wasted extra time having to proof read and correct needless mistakes. A monumental waste of money, time and resources.
Anyway, just my pet peeve with all those new keyboards. :
Anyway, just my pet peeve with all those new keyboards. :
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
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People have more difficulty learning new languages as they grow older. The system needs to be capable of dealing with people who are past university age before they make a serious attempt to acquire their "other" official language. I suspect most can learn to function adequately, but some will not be able to attain sufficient fluency to not misunderstand or miscommunicate under conditions of significant stress.
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Wow being able to say my marksmanship training is lacking in both official languages.
What a goal, far better than building a capable deployable military that speaks the same language as the rest of NATO.
What a goal, far better than building a capable deployable military that speaks the same language as the rest of NATO.
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The CF now has a new approach to biligualism. Now only Col and above and SNCO CWO must be bilingual. All others can now breathe a sigh as they will no longer have a career stopping sword hanging over their head because they are not getting french language training. Is it the right thing to do, many will debate? Personally I believe with the CF so strapped for personnel they felt the need to lax the language requirements so that certain officers and SNCOs could be promoted into much needed positions. The language police will be on the attack for sure but we have a military to run and life ain't always fair. Don't worry I am sure in 10 yrs when our numbers get back up the language training will come back full force as long as Quebec is still with us?
http://veritas.mil.ca/showfile.asp?Lang=E&URL=/Clips/National/061201/f02697NA.htm
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Bigmac said:
Is your link only accessible on the DIN?
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