Benefits Cut...

[blacktriangle]

So your wife doesn't work or anything?

 

[Strike]

I currently live in shacks in Esquimalt where our rooms have no facilities to cook our own food. I will now be forced to pay rations and ill be losing separation pay. My wife lives in Halifax and i'll be here until atleast June 2013 when my course finishes. This will be the equivalent of me maintaining 2 households on an Os salary.

Careful with that.  Without giving a reason as to why she didn't join you out west you might not get much sympathy.

 

[Occam]

Careful with that.  Without giving a reason as to why she didn't join you out west you might not get much sympathy.

He posted in April of last year as a civilian.  Judging by the trades he was pursuing, my guess is that he's on PATs in Esquimalt while awaiting QL3 training, and isn't allowed to move DF&E yet.

 

[Harbinger343]

If they are looking to save some money maybe doing away with posting me every 2 years would kill two birds with one stone.
That might take some personnel management skills and the ability to plan past the next fiscal year though.

Taking a long hard look at the 25% unfit-for-sea rate here on the west coast would probably help as well. 70 million in salary wasted on malingerers, while you burn out the guys and gals that actually go out and do their jobs.

Screw it, 2 more months and the powers that be can continue merrily destroying the CF while I enjoy my retirement and try to forget all about this train wreck that their abysmal leadership has created.

 

[Strike]

He posted in April of last year as a civilian.  Judging by the trades he was pursuing, my guess is that he's on PATs in Esquimalt while awaiting QL3 training, and isn't allowed to move DF&E yet.

Would that not be a different situation than the classic IR situation?  If there's any question in your case I would recommend you talk to your OR.

 

[Scoobs]

Yup. We could always take it from O&M or capital expenditures to the point where we pay soldiers with no equipment to use or training to do, right ?

Instead, people have to use their posting allowance to ship the dog, connection fees, redirect their mail....all out of money that is not part of their pay and thus not out of their pockets. MLI and mortgage penalties ? Try planing better.

IR ? IR was a gravytrain shitshow that should have been put to an end years ago. Too many people were going IR for reasons that were not those intended by the benefit. Now, we pay the price.

1.  IR serves a purpose.  Agreed that some pers have abused it, but the reality is that this will hurt a lot of pers on IR.  I agree that more notice could have been given, rather than 30 days plus or minus a few.  Note to all:  I've never been on IR.  This is my opinion on what is simply right to do, be it for any elimination of a benefit.  A good example of how the CF/DND handled the elimination of a policy was the PLD issue.  I had lots of notice that I was going to have it reduced and lots of notice that I wouldn't get it where I was being posted to.  Thus, this sufficient notice allowed me to properly plan.

2.  The reason why I quoted Cdn Aviator is his comment in regards to "planning better" in regards to the need for MLI.  Here's my situation.  Was in a reasonable house.  Not a mansion.  Just a three bedroom house.  Happily paying my mortgage and all bills.  Nobody gave me a dime for anything I have today as I lost both my parents when I was a child.  Thus, it wasn't like I had money flowing out of my ass.  Then I was posted to an area where the real estate market is considerably costlier.  I bought a smaller house in the new location for $70,000 more than my previous house.  It wasn't like I said, "hey, let's pay more money for a smaller house than what we had before".  Also, I bought the home outside of the normal area where mil pers buy so that I could keep the cost down (thus, planned to mitigate the increased costs).  The increase in mortgage resulted in an increase in the CMHC fees that I had to incur.  So, how would "planning better" help here?  The reality is that the military posted me and I never complained.  I followed my orders and moved.  Should I have bought a trailer and moved my family into that?  I'm being sarcastic because you can't make generalities such as "plan better" because sometimes your personal situation just doesn't allow for it.

 

[blacktriangle]

If the military really wanted to save money, they should just pay overtime to the people that actually produce results, and pink slip the rest.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm being sarcastic because you can't make generalities such as "plan better" because sometimes your personal situation just doesn't allow for it.

It sounds as though you did "plan better," given the hand that you were dealt. Kudos to you.


Edit: the rest has been deleted. Spectrum: are you going to cull the herd based on PERs, self-perception, or the depth of thought posted here?  :

 

[exabedtech]

There is another course of action available. In the USA during the last depression pensions were introduced, millions of government jobs were created, infrastructure was built and the top tax rate topped 80%. It eventually reached 94% for those who were making over 350,000 in today's dollars. I don't want to go anywhere near that far of course.

Between 1918 and 1970 the top tax rate in Canada did not drop below 60% IIRC. We have  a very low corporate tax rate of 28%.  Capital gains are taxed at 50% the rate of income. Since times are tough we could ask those with more  to temporarily pay what they used to. This was a great country when the rich paid taxes.

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/course/Labortaxes/taxableincome/taxableincome_attach.pdf

Please tell me you don't seriously believe this.

Corporations come in all shapes and sizes and employ a hell of a lot of Canadians.  Increasing taxes for large corporations provides them with an incentive to move jobs to jurisdictions with lower taxes.  Increasing taxes for small corporations simply reduces profitability and forces them to make some tough choices about where they spend money.  As a business owner, I can tell you that no single line item is more costly than labour, so guess where the first hard cuts will be made.

You don't improve the governments cash flow by increasing taxes, you do it by improving the business environment so that more can be employed.  Employed people pay taxes. 

I have no idea exactly who you would deem to be rich, but the idea that those who can afford good lawyers and accountants can avoid taxes is false.  You hire good lawyers and accountants because tax law gets very complex and you need to be sure you are fully compliant in order to avoid the penalties CRA so willingly hands out.

 

[Dexen]

Careful with that.  Without giving a reason as to why she didn't join you out west you might not get much sympathy.

She isn't allowed to move here with me. I asked if she could move here either paid by the military or out of my own pocket and I was told if she moved here I would have to stay in the shacks, pay rations and quarters and lose seperation pay.

 

[Delaney1986]

Hey Everyone,

  I'm just trying to understand what some of this means exactly. Do the cuts to separation pay include stuff like;
a.) When my husband goes away on course - does he still not pay for rations or anything while he's gone? I think he was away for about 2 months on his PLQ, that sort of thing.
b.) Does that effect if you join the military and go away for basic training? I know if you could provide proof of marriage you didn't have to pay rations or quarters.
c.) Does this effect military spouses who get posted to separate bases?

  I'm sorry if I derail, I'm just trying to understand what these changes mean exactly. I tried searching to CF website but it only talked specifically about IR and I didn't think any of the above would fit into that?

Do incidentals just mean quarters?

  Thanks for your patience with a confused civi! 

 

[aesop081]

a.) When my husband goes away on course - does he still not pay for rations or anything while he's gone? I think he was away for about 2 months on his PLQ, that sort of thing.

No change. He is attending PLQ on TD, not IR. The changes announced were for IR.

Do incidentals just mean quarters?

No. Think of incidentals as "minor expenses".

 

 

[4Feathers]

This is nothing less than a modern version of the FRP, in reverse. The timing sucks, could have been announced early in year when personnel could have planned for it. Nice to see the Members of Parliament kept their benefits etc when they are not living at home. I am not on IR, but have to deal with all the members who are. Also interesting the MRLs were published on 23 Jul, a week before the actual message. Well done to release it during the Olympics too, not much media sympathy as they are focused elsewhere. There is more coming too, strat review is a success! No more worries about the lack of attrition over the past few years, it is about to catch up.

 

[Hurricane]

She isn't allowed to move here with me. I asked if she could move here either paid by the military or out of my own pocket and I was told if she moved here I would have to stay in the shacks, pay rations and quarters and lose separation pay.

That is very interesting, since I personally know 2 people who were entitled to a PMQ and a move for their families while just awaiting course let alone being on course. This was due to the fact that their wait/course was longer than 6 months. Has this policy changed? Does it vary from school to school? Is it possible that these 2 instances were done in a large clerical error?

 

[Remius]

This is nothing less than a modern version of the FRP, in reverse. The timing sucks, could have been announced early in year when personnel could have planned for it. Nice to see the Members of Parliament kept their benefits etc when they are not living at home. I am not on IR, but have to deal with all the members who are. Also interesting the MRLs were published on 23 Jul, a week before the actual message. Well done to release it during the Olympics too, not much media sympathy as they are focused elsewhere. There is more coming too, strat review is a success! No more worries about the lack of attrition over the past few years, it is about to catch up.

Not even remotely the same as FRP.  The reason they are cutting certain benefits is to avoid doing things like FRP.  The easiest, shortest possible route is to just say "Ok, let's cut 10 000" soldiers.  problem solved.  The CF isn't the only one going through this kind of stuff.  Every department is doing its part to reduce and find efficiencies.  The world's economy is in the the tubes right now and people are complaining about a partial cut to a benefit when people are losing their jobs outright.

For those of you disapointed in our leadership and feel betrayed, take a good hard look again.  You are still getting a paycheque.  Frankly they are squeezing every possible dime out of every other area to avoid reducing our numbers by force.  Like I said, the easiest way would just to be to lay off a few thousand soldiers, airmen and sailors and be done with it.  If anything they are showing real leadership by actually thinking about smarter ways to save money than things like FRP.

Although, your conspiracy theory sounds interesting, the timelines for these things are established and direction on this was probably given when the budget was dropped if not before.  nobody said "hey, let's tell everyone during the Olympics."  I'd be more inclined to wonder if they had announced it on a Friday at 16:00hrs  before a long weekend.  Likely they were told to get it done in time for the 2nd quarter of the fiscal year, but hey, I wasn't at that O group so who knows

Unfortunately things like IR, class Bs, annuitants etc etc all have a purpose,yes.  but they've been abused for so long that it they are doing more damage than good.  The CF needs to clean up its house and it sucks that those currently in have to suffer a bit today to make things better for tommorrow but that's the way it goes.

 

[Lardofthedance]

  I've seen several cynical comments written here about IR and the benefits involved. IR is not a gravy train as it was referred to. It is a benefit to offset additional burdens to a family during a geographic separation. There are hundreds+ CF members on IR due to the fact that their families CANNOT be with them, whether it be due to employment or medical reasons, or with that said a married service couple. IR is abused, there is no questioning that, but have you seen a Cpl with enough clout to sneak him/herself into an IR posting and "abuse" it?

IR needs to be administered properly, and that starts with the senior leaders who quite often enable it. There are going hundreds+ families driven into extreme hardships, and for anybody to say something as stupid as "if you don't like it get out" or that "pink slips need to be handed out" you really need to pull your heads out of your ----'s, because you are not as important as you believe you are.

Idiotic  comments and backwards thinking  because it doesn't affect you directly doesn't go far in supporting you brothers and sisters in arms.

 

[4Feathers]

For those of you disapointed in our leadership and feel betrayed, take a good hard look again.  You are still getting a paycheque.  Frankly they are squeezing every possible dime out of every other area to avoid reducing our numbers by force.  Like I said, the easiest way would just to be to lay off a few thousand soldiers, airmen and sailors and be done with it.  If anything they are showing real leadership by actually thinking about smarter ways to save money than things like FRP.

Although, your conspiracy theory sounds interesting, the timelines for these things are established and direction on this was probably given when the budget was dropped if not before.  nobody said "hey, let's tell everyone during the Olympics."  I'd be more inclined to wonder if they had announced it on a Friday at 16:00hrs  before a long weekend.  Likely they were told to get it done in time for the 2nd quarter of the fiscal year, but hey, I wasn't at that O group so who knows

Not conspired? Hardly, my L1 was not even aware of this change. Will it affect members; yes, families; yes, Operations; yes, but I doubt they anticipated that. For all those of you who are "yes men" and "hey, it could be worse", good luck, there is more coming. Yes we are compensated fairly, but the communication plan for this significantly large change in policy was one of "shock and awe", not what those in uniform deserve. Was there some abuse of the system, yes, but why punish the families who were not. Have the courtesy to at least give them time to plan for it. For the "suck it up" crowd, good luck using that in person to your troops who are affected by this. Get ready for the PLD and further pension reforms coming soon. I hope they have a better communication plan for the cuts still to come.

 

[Lardofthedance]

    4Feathers, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Remius]

Yep it is going to suck and has sucked.  Are you suggesting that the CF should be immune from any type of cut or reform in this kind of economic climate?

Tell me what YOU would do. Oh and you only have a few months to get it done without pissing anyone off.  And...go.

This isn't as simple as them against us and screwing us over.

As for pension reform stuff, that is completely out of the CF's hands and will also affect the PS, the CF and the RCMP.  It will likely have us pay more into our pension to bring us more in line with the private sector and closer to 50/50 for contributions.  There.  You heard it here, so when you get your severance, instead of buying a boat save it to offset that.  I'm already looking at the numbers and how it will affect my take home when the pensions get reformed and plan on being ready because I know it's coming.  Somebody said to plan better.  Those are good words of advice.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yup,.....I'd hate to see the long faces and whining on this board if some of these folks had to plan to not be paid for anywhere from 2 to 20 weeks just to secure the type of raises that are handed to them from the Unioned Govt. employee's................