Bemoaning The Lack of Sports in The CF? [merged thread]

[Infanteer]

There is enough money to train.  These activities are useful to keep people interested during times between field deployments.

 

[OldSolduer]

There is enough money to train.  These activities are useful to keep people interested during times between field deployments.

Understood. I know 1 CMBG has Strong Contender (some have said Pretender) but it is almost exclusivley an Edmonton thing, despite 2 VP and 1 Guns being in Shilo.
The rank and file a good many years ago weren't upset about the unit volleyball team, or the unit broom ball team....it was the hockey team.
I have said enough now.

 

[MJP]

Understood. I know 1 CMBG has Strong Contender (some have said Pretender) but it is almost exclusivley an Edmonton thing, despite 2 VP and 1 Guns being in Shilo.

It is hardly an Edmonton only thing.  Both Shilo units send strong contingents , I can't recall from this year but Wx and Suffield generally send teams as well.  Troops coming in to Edmonton is the largest cost but I have never heard anyone say exclude them.  It is preferable to cut the number of spectators and sports.

I have long distained CISM as I personally feel it has little bang for its buck. Even Regionals and Nationals get my goat a bit and feel that they should be biannually but I certainly don't begrudge folks that play the sports.  As several have pointed out it is an excellent perk of the job; one very few civilian employers would give.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So, judging by some of the reactions in this thread, not many of you participate in Sports.

It benefits in many ways;

1. Physical fitness, to compete at the level in many sports takes peak conditioning.
2. Morale, Obviously
3. Team building,
4. Leadership- and to that comment up above that states flying, and sailing develops leadership, that is head in the sand thinking.
5. Friendly Rivalry between bases etc.

6.  Sports are NOT ESSENTIAL to conducting OPERATIONS. 

I've played rugby, soccer, hockey, I've boxed, competed in wrestling, judo, taken karate.  Guess what made me better at foot patrols?

None of those.

The CAF isn't a professional sports organization and anyone who joins for the 'sports scholarship' stuff is motivated for the wrong reason. 

 

[TCM621]

I wonder how many people who are so vehemently defending national spots programs, are doing so because they have benefited from being on a base team?

One poster above listed a bunch of benefits of sports. I totally agree with all of them. In a perfect world our national sport program would be huge and we would be attracted Olympic level athletes who could go on the world stage and rep the CF.
But the CF is not a perfect world, it isn't even a moderately reasonable one. We have personnel shortages everywhere, no money for training or equipment. Spending money and person days on something like nationals just does make fiscal sense.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

4. Leadership- and to that comment up above that states flying, and sailing develops leadership, that is head in the sand thinking.

I'll reply to this as I wrote it.  Head in the sand thinking.  SO all the pre/work-up training for the sandbox should not have been done in the field, it should have been done on ballfields and hockey clinics??

So.  To you, flying/sailing/field deployments do NOT develop leadership but a rink or ball field does?

You are pure fucking clueless. 

 

[Strike]

I wonder how many people who are so vehemently defending national spots programs, are doing so because they have benefited from being on a base team?

One poster above listed a bunch of benefits of sports. I totally agree with all of them. In a perfect world our national sport program would be huge and we would be attracted Olympic level athletes who could go on the world stage and rep the CF.
But the CF is not a perfect world, it isn't even a moderately reasonable one. We have personnel shortages everywhere, no money for training or equipment. Spending money and person days on something like nationals just does make fiscal sense.

But all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

 

[upandatom]

I'll reply to this as I wrote it.  Head in the sand thinking.  SO all the pre/work-up training for the sandbox should not have been done in the field, it should have been done on ballfields and hockey clinics??

So.  To you, flying/sailing/field deployments do NOT develop leadership but a rink or ball field does?

You are pure ******* clueless. 

All of that does, I never said just athletics develops leadership skills. I was defending the fact that Athletics helps develop it as someone previously stated that it does not.

It is well documented that Atheltics has a direct influence on leadership ability and develops leadership skills.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's not "all work".  We are talking about cutting the waste of tax dollars (including mine) sending people, who are being paid by the CAF, but aren't at their place of duty doing work, they are practicing or playing on teams that then go away on TD cash cow trips.

Intersection hockey, unit teams, etc are fine.  It's these sports scholarship types who think they 'have a RIGHT!' to get paid tax dollars to play sports and not use Ann Leave and use TD bucks and the like that are the problem.

I remember a good go on Adventure Training at Marble Mountain for a week years back.  Hard to do that now, and it wasn't open to the 'select few' who could slap a piece of rubber between the posts.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

There is plenty and friggin' plenty of money................to say it gets wasted badly is an insult to the term 'wasted badly'.

I'd scrap a lot of useless things before I'd scrap any sports......

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is plenty and friggin' plenty of money................to say it gets wasted badly is an insult to the term 'wasted badly'.

I'd scrap a lot of useless things before I'd scrap any sports......

So, the cuts to YFR at my Wing this coming FY are all in my head.  Roger.

 

[upandatom]

There is plenty and friggin' plenty of money................to say it gets wasted badly is an insult to the term 'wasted badly'.

I'd scrap a lot of useless things before I'd scrap any sports......

:nod:
How about the millions we have wasted on boots, or new cad pat uniforms (what is wrong with what we have now? besides no two "sizes" are the same) or the tonne of members on IR.
I work at a unit that deals with money daily, huge wastes everyday. What about the rampant end of FY spending? on what? more useless crap?

6.  Sports are NOT ESSENTIAL to conducting OPERATIONS. 

I've played rugby, soccer, hockey, I've boxed, competed in wrestling, judo, taken karate.  Guess what made me better at foot patrols?

None of those.

The CAF isn't a professional sports organization and anyone who joins for the 'sports scholarship' stuff is motivated for the wrong reason.

No they aren't essential for conducting operations, but they do keep the fitness level up as, the comradery, and develops leadership. Participating in these have given you fundamentals that can directly affect the outcome of those foot patrols.

Why do you think RMC, Annapolis, and other Leadership schools around the world have set standards that their students will participate in sports. They develop skills essential to military life.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No they aren't essential for conducting operations

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I guess if "operations" are all ya' have left in your life then..............

 

[Strike]

I guess if "operations" are all ya' have left in your life then..............

'Zactly!

 

[TCM621]

There seems to be a lot of people building a straw man argument here. Eye in the sky, myself and a few others are speaking strictly to sports teams and athletes that travel on the Queen's shilling to events like Nationals or CISM. This does not  make us anti sport. I have participated in sports in all my life and have reaped the benefits. Intersection sports are fun and cost effective. Even trips between bagotville and valcartier or comox and esquimalt, etc could still be workable. However, the current system is not fiscally responsible at this point.

 

[OldSolduer]

There seems to be a lot of people building a straw man argument here. Eye in the sky, myself and a few others are speaking strictly to sports teams and athletes that travel on the Queen's shilling to events like Nationals or CISM. This does not  make us anti sport. I have participated in sports in all my life and have reaped the benefits. Intersection sports are fun and cost effective. Even trips between bagotville and valcartier or comox and esquimalt, etc could still be workable. However, the current system is not fiscally responsible at this point.

Well said. Sports are good but when they cause dissension they can be poison to a unit.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I guess if "operations" are all ya' have left in your life then..............

So the CF should be responsible for each and every members recreational activities?  I don't want to play hockey or soccer.  I want to canoe.  So I guess for each hour someone plays hockey, I should be able to throw a canoe in the water and paddle around.

During work hours, that is.  I should also be able to load that canoe up for a week and go paddle in other places, on TD.

:

 

[upandatom]

So the CF should be responsible for each and every members recreational activities?  I don't want to play hockey or soccer.  I want to canoe.  So I guess for each hour someone plays hockey, I should be able to throw a canoe in the water and paddle around.

During work hours, that is.  I should also be able to load that canoe up for a week and go paddle in other places, on TD.

:

You mean Adventure training? Units do that all the time.

Well said. Sports are good but when they cause dissension they can be poison to a unit.

Yes they can, I agree fully. Usually with people that are out of shape though, or just plain and simple too lazy to participate.

Its the same argument i get in my with civilian workers. They bitch and complain that we do PT (we do PT three days a week, and two PT sessions are at 1430 which is 30 min before we are done for the day), that some people play sports, either intersection or regional/national. The way my unit works is that- IF you participate in a sport, you are only allowed to attend the Tuesday morning PT Session with the CO and the PSP staff.
I tell my civilian workers, hey, if you want the benefits, go to the recruiting office.

And as for people taking my comments literally-
I agree, CISM should be scaled back (the triathlon people are spending two weeks in march in florida training and competing at a camp)

For those that don't know- CISM is a funny little machine- CISM is usually full of Class B, CISM funds actually pay those members contracts while they are part of/participating with CISM events. IE- an excellent and semi pro triathlon runner happens to be a reservist, in the triathlon circle the patron of the sport hears about this, that member gets a class b somewhere, then that member goes to Florida for two weeks, Because they are class B, and part of CISM, they get paid through CISM for those two weeks there.

National level sports need to be cutback (some should become Biannual) I think the big ones- Hockey, Basketball, Volleyball, Soccer, Running, Softball (3 winter 3 summer ) should stay (maybe floor hockey for the hockey lovers that can't skate) In no way am i saying Badminton, Racquetball etc aren't sports. They just have a tendency to be very one sided and the same person winning year after year.

I would also hesitantly agree- Sports TD should be of a different amount then Course, or Work related TD. And at all times possible, Service flights used. I am fairly certain we have planes that are required to fly one way or another to keep flying hours up.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I guess if "operations" are all ya' have left in your life then..............

I don't think we will ever get to a point where "operations" is all anyone should have in their life, nor do I think anyone is arguing that.  What one could argue is that the only people that get anything out of CISM sports are the few people who do CISM sports.  If a unit wins the national hockey championship who other than the hockey players and the CO/RSM get anything out of it?  Whereas, we're willing to cut money for what I would deem "useful" TD such as international/NATO conferences but maintain CISM as a sacred cow.  If the money comes out of NPF than that's fine, that's what NPF money is for.  However, I see no reason why my mother, father, sisters (ie- taxpayers) should pay for personnel to go to a national or regional sports event so that they can drink/socialize on TD.