Becoming a Crew Commander
- Thread starter Hexx
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Meridian said:
When I see Sgts in the US Army, I think of very supervised Corporals here. Really.
AmmoTech90
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My father joined in 1940, bummed around Borden and England until 1943, training, and at the age of 20 landed in Sicily, Cpl, crew commanding (well would have been if the ship with the vehicles hadn't been sunk and the regiment hadn't been thrown into the line as infantry, but they did get more cars eventually). Prior to the landing he had no operational experience, yes there were lessons being learnt and hopefully passed back, but hopefully that is happening now too.
As well, the vehicles they were equipped with were changing constantly and included turreted vehicles.
If we could do it then, why cant we do it now?
I realize there are two main points to counter this question; it was wartime and needs must, and modern vehicles are much more complex.
To counter the wartime argument I would say that training techniques have improved since then, hopefully we have learnt how to pass knowledge on more efficiently. If we haven't then maybe we should look at improving how things are taught, rather than requiring more teaching. In teaching I include training, people getting experience outside of both the formal classroom and operational environments.
As far as the complexity of the vehicle, isn't technology supposed to make life easier? Reading this thread, and others, I have gotten the impression that crew commanding is mostly about reading traces, navigating, and maintaining SA. If so, once again the tech should aid this.
So the question I have is, how different is cc'ing a Coyote, while it's on the move, as part of a brigade recce unit from cc'ing a Staghound as part of a corps or div recce unit?
D (who has only cc'd a Bison)
As well, the vehicles they were equipped with were changing constantly and included turreted vehicles.
If we could do it then, why cant we do it now?
I realize there are two main points to counter this question; it was wartime and needs must, and modern vehicles are much more complex.
To counter the wartime argument I would say that training techniques have improved since then, hopefully we have learnt how to pass knowledge on more efficiently. If we haven't then maybe we should look at improving how things are taught, rather than requiring more teaching. In teaching I include training, people getting experience outside of both the formal classroom and operational environments.
As far as the complexity of the vehicle, isn't technology supposed to make life easier? Reading this thread, and others, I have gotten the impression that crew commanding is mostly about reading traces, navigating, and maintaining SA. If so, once again the tech should aid this.
So the question I have is, how different is cc'ing a Coyote, while it's on the move, as part of a brigade recce unit from cc'ing a Staghound as part of a corps or div recce unit?
D (who has only cc'd a Bison)
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In 1985 armour officer training consisted of phase II - dismounted inf sect comd, phase III - crew commanding in a leopard, and phase IV - tp leading out of M113's. In phase IV we also did cougar gunnery, driving to the firing pad and back.
So when 3/4 of us got to our regiments we had never been in the field in the vehicle we were going to be crew commanding and tp leading - the cougar. That kind of sucked big time. My first ex with the strats was in Suffield and we were going up the side of a hill and the next thing I know the vehicle is sliding sideways and gets hung up on a berm overlooking one of those giants ditches next to a major road. Not a good introduction to being in the vehicle in the field.
So when 3/4 of us got to our regiments we had never been in the field in the vehicle we were going to be crew commanding and tp leading - the cougar. That kind of sucked big time. My first ex with the strats was in Suffield and we were going up the side of a hill and the next thing I know the vehicle is sliding sideways and gets hung up on a berm overlooking one of those giants ditches next to a major road. Not a good introduction to being in the vehicle in the field.
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big bad john said:
In the US Army, Sgt seems to be the working rank. Much the same as what we find in certain Trades here, like Geo Tech. In comparison, you will usually find that their Sgt E5 is the equivalent to our MCpl.
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AmmoTech90 said:
Let's see; reading Traces/navigating and maintaining SA are good. Let's add some more to the Map using skills, such as map symbols and interpretation. Let's also add a good knowledge of Comms; operating the equipment in Secure and Non-Secure mods, and Voice Procedure. Let's also add a good knowledge of Gunnery; equipment and techniques. Let's also not forget a good grounding in Tactics. Don't forget a good knowledge and understanding in AFV Recognition (Helps greatly in those Blue on Blue.). I would add "An Evil Streak - to anticipate what the Enemy would do?" and a good knowledge of use of ground and types of ground.
One of the first things that one will be shocked about in Crew Commanding, is the speed with which you cover the ground.
Next; one of the first things that one will be shocked about in Crew Commanding a Turreted Vehicle is how the vehicle may be going one way, but the turret is going another.......Gotta Love "FULL STAB!"
A good C/C has to be able to do several things at once. When in 'Contact' he must control the Gunner (and Loader in a tank) in firing at the Target; control the Driver and keep him going where he must go; keep and eye on the ground around him as part of his on going C/C Appreciation; keep his superiors informed on the Radio; be able to read his map accurately to send in a Contact Report and perhaps even call in an Artillery Fire Mission; along with being able to use his resources (Bino's, Range Finders, Sights) to give Range estimations to his Gunner or the Guns; and control his own body functions throughout all this.
It truly can be exhilarating.
"STAB ON!"
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George Wallace said:
;D Looking straight ahead at where you want to go in the turret of a Leopard and saying 'Driver advance" and having the big beast make a violent lunge to the left as you get bounced around in the hatch :rofl:
"Look at the floor to get your orientation." Man did that take some getting used to.
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Remember that you are a team of 3 wagons use the information that they provide, and provide information yourself! In a contact you are the guy in charge and no OC/CO will question what and why you did something.
Have a good sense of humour; you will be living out of each others back pocket. Have a laugh and a joke, get to know them on a personal level, but come down on them like a ton of bricks if things start going wrong. Think of it this way…you are putting your life in their hands. Don’t ride on the gunner’s case, as when it comes to the crunch he’s the guy that will identify the target first! The loader/radio op is the “mother” of the crew; you are just along for the ride, and it will show faith in the crew.
Don’t try to look every where/ do everything, that’s why you have wingmen.
GPS is good, but it is a TOOL, the real need is a good understanding of map reading and Tactical Awareness.
Your stead has the weapon equivalent of …well…a tank, and on your first fire order, you are on top of the world.
Have a good sense of humour; you will be living out of each others back pocket. Have a laugh and a joke, get to know them on a personal level, but come down on them like a ton of bricks if things start going wrong. Think of it this way…you are putting your life in their hands. Don’t ride on the gunner’s case, as when it comes to the crunch he’s the guy that will identify the target first! The loader/radio op is the “mother” of the crew; you are just along for the ride, and it will show faith in the crew.
Don’t try to look every where/ do everything, that’s why you have wingmen.
GPS is good, but it is a TOOL, the real need is a good understanding of map reading and Tactical Awareness.
Your stead has the weapon equivalent of …well…a tank, and on your first fire order, you are on top of the world.
