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Be in shape when you arrive on course...

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vonGarvin

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...or else.
This past week, a number of candidates for various courses at the Infantry School all conducted their CF Expres Test.  In total 9 candidates failed the test, and all 9 were ceased training for failing to meet the prerequisite of meeting the MPFS. 
The message is clear: meet the standard, or go home.  There is no chance to have a "do over", and doing 18 of 19 pushups is not "good enough".

Yes, one of those sent home passed all individual tests, less pushups.  He got 18 of the required 19. 

Also, remember that it's not just a number you have to do, it's technique.  So, I'm just posting this so that hopefully the word gets out: meet the MINIMUM standard or go home.  It's that simple. 

 
Thank god the School of Awesomosity has the integrity to be the filter that Recruiting Centres and Saint Jean are failing to be.

Nobody has made anything harder; the standards are the same as they've always been. 

It's just that it takes Infanteers* to hold future leaders to the standard.

That's right, I said it!

Added: *Note* "Infanteer" is straight from the Director of Infantry's mouth.  Infantryman is out like Spokesman and Salesman.
 
Amen.

When I went in to do the Entry Fitness evaluation during the recruiting process, I was surprised at these people who were about my age (16-20) and even older (20-25) who couldn't even meet the entry requirements. The old guy beside me, who was probably 40-45, actually scored on the SUPERIOR scale of the examination. Needless to say; 3 out of 11 applicants at that time went on because we met, and exceeded the minimum fitness requirements.
 
Petamocto said:
Thank god the School of Awesomosity has the integrity to be the filter that Recruiting Centres and Saint Jean are failing to be.

![/i]

Sounds like the Timmies commercial "awesomer!", just note that the RC's don't conduct express tests for reg force recruits, and CFPSA conducts the tests for the reservists that apply.  That being said, I concur with your rating for the school of awesomosity!
 
  That's ***ing pathetic!!!  The sad part is that it is the norm in my world ( Transport) to not be able to pass a PT test. 
When I was thinking of joining I was overweight and could barely do 5 push-ups...sad.  Anyhow, once I decided to join I learned how to eat healthy and to maintain a healthy weight through good food and exercise.

  I always thought of it is part of my duty as a soldier to maintain a healthy body.  Is that too much to ask?  The canteen where I work is stocked with nothing but garbage. Pizza pockets...pop, chips , chocolate bars....ice cream.  And the guys LOVE it.  Seems like a bar/pop n' chips is considered lunch to way more people than I thought.

  Sorry for the rant.  I just get frustrated by peoples inability to meet even the smallest of standards, while self sabotaging every day.  One of my favorite military sayings that keeps me motivated  is------------  " Discipline yourself, so that others don't have to do it for you."
 
4Feathers said:
just note that the RC's don't conduct express tests for reg force recruits, and CFPSA conducts the tests for the reservists that apply.

Considering that when people arrive at the school mentioned, they have already gone through BMQ/BMOQ and are well aware of what the minimum stadard is. Some have even been to this school previously on other courses and have spent time at various units.

Your comment about the CFRC and reg/res is irrelevant.
 
CDN Aviator said:
Your comment about the CFRC and reg/res is irrelevant.
How true.
Of the 9 sent back, there were at least two doing ROTP at civilian universities, at least one reservist, and at least four from RMC.  "Full Spectrum Failures".

Also, please note that though 9 failed the ExPres Test, over 200 passed it. 

As a further note, that is just the prerequisite to get your foot in the door.  The Commandant and his staff expect you to far exceed the minimum standard. 
 
Well done to whoever put their foot down on these candidates. If only other areas of the CF would do the same!
 
I leave this Sunday to start BMOQ-L at the Infantry School... I have more or less had the fear of God put into me by my instructors at St. Jean to the point that I've been worried (and training because of it) for 8 months about not being in good enough shape to complete the course. Some poor guys here that work there can testify that I've worn out my welcome with PMs ;D

I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but I can't comprehend how people can show up at or just below the minimum required fitness level and actually expect to pass the course. Even if that one guy did squeek out an extra pushup... did he really think he was in good enough shape to complete the course?

Now that I have said this, let's watch as the karma monkey c0ckslaps me in the face next Monday and makes me fail the hand grip test. :(
 
Technoviking said:
As a further note, that is just the prerequisite to get your foot in the door field.

And from personal experience on both sides of the fence (candidate and course officer), the PT Test is only for staff to be reasonably certain that the person will not have a heart attack going up the stairs.

It is in no way meant to replicate the physical hardships that await you in the field that are literally infinitely harder than what PSP does to you wearing a bib and a number.

[/instilling fear in future candidates]

 
ballz said:
Even if that one guy did squeek out an extra pushup... did he really think he was in good enough shape to complete the course?
That is the point precisely.  There is a minimum standard.  And that's just to get in the door, as I said.  To be fit enough to have the reserves to make it on pure willpower, one must have a very good start state. 
The other point I wish to make is technique, the whole "90 degree" elbow thing.  And all that jazz.  Some candidates will say "They didn't count over half".  That's fine.  Everyone else made it, YOU didn't. 
stalking-01.jpg



Yeah, YOU!
 
Big Beef said:
Amen.

When I went in to do the Entry Fitness evaluation during the recruiting process, I was surprised at these people who were about my age (16-20) and even older (20-25) who couldn't even meet the entry requirements. The old guy beside me, who was probably 40-45, actually scored on the SUPERIOR scale of the examination. Needless to say; 3 out of 11 applicants at that time went on because we met, and exceeded the minimum fitness requirements.

Us older guys came from another generation. I think Jai Leno sums up the fitness problem with alot of the younger generation.
From Jai Leno:
TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED THE 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!!
First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can and didn't get tested for diabetes.
Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-base paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, locks on doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had baseball caps not helmets on our heads.
As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a pick up truck on a warm day was always a special treat.
We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and no one actually died from this.
We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter and bacon. We drank Kool-aid made with real white sugar. And, we weren't overweight. WHY?
Because we were always outside, playing...that's why!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And, we were O.K.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times,we learned to solve the problem.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's and X-boxes. There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms.
WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them.
Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment.

Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever.
The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.
If YOU are one of them-- CONGRATULATIONS!

You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our lives for our own good.
While you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave and lucky their parents were.
Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it ?
 
CallOfDuty said:
  That's ***ing pathetic!!!  The sad part is that it is the norm in my world ( Transport) to not be able to pass a PT test. 
When I was thinking of joining I was overweight and could barely do 5 push-ups...sad.  Anyhow, once I decided to join I learned how to eat healthy and to maintain a healthy weight through good food and exercise.

  I always thought of it is part of my duty as a soldier to maintain a healthy body.  Is that too much to ask?  The canteen where I work is stocked with nothing but garbage. Pizza pockets...pop, chips , chocolate bars....ice cream.  And the guys LOVE it.  Seems like a bar/pop n' chips is considered lunch to way more people than I thought.

  Sorry for the rant.  I just get frustrated by peoples inability to meet even the smallest of standards, while self sabotaging every day.  One of my favorite military sayings that keeps me motivated  is------------  " Discipline yourself, so that others don't have to do it for you."
While I agree 100% with you, those who do the CF Express Test aren't army material yet. They obviously didn't prepare for it, but a lot of civvy jobs don't require a high level of fitness. It's just irresponsibility that these people decide not to do what you did, eat healthy and exercise.
 
At least one school isnt coddling em. Shows that the infantry school is running fit keen guys at thei DP1 instructor level. Now if we can get other schools to get on board.
 
57Chevy said:
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's and X-boxes. There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms.
WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them.
Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment.

Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it ?

I am 19 at the moment and back when I was younger I was shooting a 10/22 Ruger by age 6, had no internet (other then the little bit of time the school gave) until I was 14, we were outside for hours in all seasons, bicycles/motorbikes/atv's were driven without helmets, most of us did make hockey/baseball teams because there was very few of us YET, with that - all of us were good enough to make it even if there was excess people because thats all we did all day. Personally I have not broken any bones/chipped teeth but have seen it done :D! We also had to remove snow in winter because no plow was coming to do it for us, had to cut wood and haul it to the house every night in winter to stay warm etc, etc.

I did have a Nintendo and a Super Nintendo (Mario is epic - enough said there!).

The only difference these days is more kids grow up in cities - giving them access to all the stuff you listed and not having to "go it alone" type deal. For those who grew up in the country (your neighbor was a 10-15 minute drive away) it was basically the same as what you described.

Not trying to shoot your/Leno's write up! There clearly is more comfort in living these days because of the people who grew up back in the day =). I enjoy my computer and internet, more efficient and easier. Though I would much rather be walking a bush for hours on end shooting squirrels/birds/beavers and what ever else moved haha.

Also, most of the students in my school (~90% of them) were in shape, able to play any sport and did play them. As for those who were overweight, they were the type that sat at home and did not join in/afraid of sunlight type people. As time progresses overweight people will increase as daily living gets easier and easier, while unhealthy food gets quicker and closer to those who enjoy it!
 
I know there as to be some kind of standard but given that the judging from one PSP staff to the next is not exact and body types are different I think there can be a better test made up.  Besides doing 19 push ups vice 18 doesn't make one a better soldier over the other.  Unfortunately that's the model but I think there has to  be a better way.
 
Lone Wolf AT said:
given that the judging from one PSP staff to the next is not exact and body types are different I think there can be a better test made up

I agree with that, and I *think* I have already (in my short short time in the CF) seen the difference between PSP staff make the difference between a pass and a fail.

Through hockey and other sports I have done a lot of fitness testing and none of the express test stuff is new to me. What I don't get is why the CF uses this whole "90 degree bend at the elbow" thing as the measurement of a completed push-ups, because like you said, it is so subjective.

The best way I've seen push-ups measured is to have something (a person's fist/finger/thumb, or an actual button that "clicks" when pressed, anything) placed under the person's chest that needs to be touched. Pretty damn hard for human error, body type, etc, to screw that up. You either touched the button/fist or you didn't.
 
One of the PSP staff assessing you in Gagetown could be this guy........ most of you in  Gagetown should know him......
 
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