Battle lines drawn over illegal guns

[GAP]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1151273413319&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724

Typical Star  rhetoric. Quoting lots of people, including Senator Roméo Dallaire, but basically a disjointed report on ????? guns maybe, or is it gunrunning..hard to tell.

I have seen how these weapons can spark, fuel and prolong conflict," said Senator Roméo Dallaire, the Canadian commander who could not convince the United Nations to intervene to prevent the 1994 Rwandan genocide that killed at least 800,000 people in 100 days.

Last week in Ottawa, the general made his stand plain: "I join the thousands of Canadians, who are asking the government to take leadership at the UN meeting ... to ensure it results in strengthened efforts to effectively regulate the arms trade, control munitions and arms transfers, and eliminate gun violence.

 

[MG34]

More Liberal tripe,being pedalled by thier new lap dog.

 

[KevinB]

:brickwall:

yeah - more bureaucracy will fix it  :

 

[Remius]

Hmn, that's not what I got from the article.  The message I got from it is that IF Canada backtracks on the gun registery  (which I think should be repealed) then we would be sending a mixed signal to the UN about our stance on the international proliferation of weapons (which needs to be addressed).  Nothing really wrong with what is being said because in all likelyhood it will send a mixed message.

However, I really don't see how our gun registery problem relates to guns being sold abroad to the nefarious elements of the world.  Unfortunately people will associate both together.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

A bolt action hunting rifle with a 3 round magazine has very little in common with an AK-47 that has an Automatic firing mode and a 30 round magazine.  Yes, many will compare the two because they have their own reasons and motivation for doing so.  I however fail to see the correlation.

Common sense isn't common right?

 

[MG34]

Yes big difference,but if a private individual wishes to own an Ak for a legal use there should be no restrictions on doing so,the UN proposal wants to ban the private ownership of these firearms as well (well all firearms actually).

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The situation in Canada is we have too many criminals, not too many guns.

I don't see that situation being different internationally.  If we repeal the gun registery for hunting long arms, that doesn't send a message to the UN at all. The UN and whatever other international bodies that care to listen need to realize that guns aren't the problem - dictators and warlords are the problem.  The Swiss give out guns like candy to their citizens, seems to me their country runs fine.

Get rid of the criminals and clean up decaying societies, and your gun problem goes away too. Raise standards of living and increase opportunities - the same formula applies to urban ghettoes in North American and to entire states in Africa.

I don't pretend to know how to implement change like that, but it should be obvious by now that banning guns doesn't work; people will always have them or know how to get them, legally or illegally.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Yes big difference,but if a private individual wishes to own an Ak for a legal use there should be no restrictions on doing so,the UN proposal wants to ban the private ownership of these firearms as well (well all firearms actually).

I am not sure if there should be no restrictions on certain weapons.  What use is there to have a fully functional AK with a 30 round magazine?  Don't get me wrong I would love to be able to buy an M14 or a C8, but why do I need it?  I don't agree in banning private ownership of firearms, and I'm also against the gun registry when it applies to long rifles and shotguns.  I'm still on the fence about pistols and automatic assault rifles though as their purpose is not for hunting but more nefarious.  I am of the opinion that there does need to be at least a minimum level of regulation in terms of pistols and assault rifles, but that is simply my opinion.

 

[paracowboy]

I am not sure if there should be no restrictions on certain weapons.  What use is there to have a fully functional AK with a 30 round magazine?  Don't get me wrong I would love to be able to buy an M14 or a C8, but why do I need it?  I don't agree in banning private ownership of firearms, and I'm also against the gun registry when it applies to long rifles and shotguns.  I'm still on the fence about pistols and automatic assault rifles though as their purpose is not for hunting but more nefarious.  I am of the opinion that there does need to be at least a minimum level of regulation in terms of pistols and assault rifles, but that is simply my opinion.

why do we need sports cars that go twice the speed limit? Why do we need TV screens bigger than my couch? "Why" is immaterial. Unless you use something to the detriment of others, it's nobody's business - including the government's - what you own, and why. Whether it be a dishwasher or a .50 cal belt-fed HMG.

 

[KevinB]

I am not sure if there should be no restrictions on certain weapons.  What use is there to have a fully functional AK with a 30 round magazine?  Don't get me wrong I would love to be able to buy an M14 or a C8, but why do I need it?  I don't agree in banning private ownership of firearms, and I'm also against the gun registry when it applies to long rifles and shotguns.  I'm still on the fence about pistols and automatic assault rifles though as their purpose is not for hunting but more nefarious.  I am of the opinion that there does need to be at least a minimum level of regulation in terms of pistols and assault rifles, but that is simply my opinion.

:

Handguns and select fire firearms have been regulated in Canada since 1935.

In Jan 1 1979 - select fire weapons where prohibited and all currently registered onces where grandfathered (owners too)

Since that point the RCMP Comissioner had (circa 1995) admitted that nothing in the registry has help solve or prevent a crime (since criminals don't tend to use lawfully acquired weapons).

The gun laws brought in circa 94-95 are complete junk, and the follow ons have not been any better.

I can do WAY more damage with a vehicle than a firearm (and I am pretty good with firearms).

The UN is comprised of a majority of tinpot dictators -- of course they want to disarm their populaces -- and the long haired tree hugging dope smoking friends of Jesus on the Left seems to thing the sky is a lovely shade of Pink and go along with them. 

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Guys, I know the story and I have all the info. at my fingertips and have researched this topic on many levels from many sides.  I'm of the opinion that registration has done nothing to lower crime because criminals don't register jack squat.  I know the background and the history of firearms in Canada in terms of registration.  I also have a fairly good picture of the future because registration usually leads to mass confiscation (Australia is a prime example).  I still question the need to own certain types of firearms, so I'm almost dealing with 2 personalities.  The part of me that wants to own an M14, and the part that asks do I need it?  However, if I were polled or asked to vote whether to keep the gun registry (on all levels from long rifle to assault weapons) I would say no.

 

[KevinB]

I'd be much more in favour of a US (pre-86) style of National Registry of certain firearms and a Tax placed (and finger prints etc.) on the ownership.

From a practical standpoint -- the select fire weapons does little than cannot be achieved by a trained indidual with a bolt action...

(okay well maybe a belt fed M2 or Mk19 AGL may be hard to replaicate with a No.4 Longbranch Lee-Enfield)

 

[Remius]

why do we need sports cars that go twice the speed limit? Why do we need TV screens bigger than my couch? "Why" is immaterial. Unless you use something to the detriment of others, it's nobody's business - including the government's - what you own, and why. Whether it be a dishwasher or a .50 cal belt-fed HMG.

Well, none of that stuff has killing in mind.  A .50 cal or an AK-47 are designed to kill.  Nothing else. 

The government has rules to protect citizens from themselves.  They may not always be effective or desirable but rules have to be in place regardless.  I think people need a course to handle wepaons and yes need a lisence.

The gun registry is a joke yes.  And it is targeting the wrong the wrong people.  However we should not say, well it doesen't work let everyone do what they want to.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well, none of that stuff has killing in mind.  A .50 cal or an AK-47 are designed to kill.  Nothing else. 

One can also fire them competitively, or just for fun.

 

[Infanteer]

Killing comes from intent my friend.  But we've been down this road before....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Well, none of that stuff has killing in mind.  A .50 cal or an AK-47 are designed to kill.  Nothing else. 

So what?......do a survey and see how many people cars/trucks have killed over the last 10 years compared to guns.  I don't care about "designed for"...those people are just as dead.  
And will add my usual disclaimer that I personally, despise guns, but fair is fair.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Dam inconsiderate that the Bad guys have yet to use a working machine gun or .50 cal rifle in a crime. Really makes it hard for the anti’s to conjure up stats, although they do their best.  :

 

[Remius]

Yes killing comes from intent.  But the purpose of some weapons is to kill.  An AK-47 was designed to facilitate killing.  Not hunting, not recreational shooting just killing.  

I think that I would like to know that someone has a .50 cal in his backyard.  And I'd be happy if the authorities knew as well.

The problem is that society is essentially irresponsible.  Take driving.  People still drink and drive.  Most don't intend to kill people when they do, but they do it anyways.

Regulations and laws need to be put in place.  They just have to be effective.  The gun registry is not.

 

[George Wallace]

Dam inconsiderate that the Bad guys have yet to use a working machine gun or .50 cal rifle in a crime. Really makes it hard for the anti’s to conjure up stats, although they do their best.  :

A gang used a .50 Cal in a Bank Heist in Montreal in the 60's or 70's.  The Brinks guards gave them the cash.  The HMG was abandoned at the site, and on inspection was found to be inoperable as some of the working parts had been assembled backwards/incorrectly.

 

[Remius]

So what?......do a survey and see how many people cars/trucks have killed over the last 10 years compared to guns.  I don't care about "designed for"...those people are just as dead.  
And will add my usual disclaimer that I personally, despise guns, but fair is fair.

Are we talking about Canada?  The world?  

And your car is registered is it not?  Do you not need a lisence?  Hell cars all have VIN numbers on them.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.  How about we compare work place related deaths to gun deaths in Canada?

Cars are a part of everyday life.  People need them to work, to live, to travel.

Find one person in Canada that needs an AK-47 as a part of their daily life?

Again apples and oranges.