daftandbarmy
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Old Sweat said:
If the 'quantity' rule is used, I'm sure the units that contributed a relatively small number of troops, yet had people killed or wounded, will understand. :
Battle Honours for Afghanistan
- Thread starter pbi
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If the 'quantity' rule is used, I'm sure the units that contributed a relatively small number of troops, yet had people killed or wounded, will understand. :
slayer/raptor
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I am curious to see if out of the 63 Army regiments that are to receive theatre honours, if this includes RCHA and 5e RALC regiments. If I am not mistaken, Queen Victoria had decided long ago that artillery regiments were to be given the holistic "Ubique" battle honour since they were essentially "everywhere" and were not going to be given theatre or battle honours.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
As a gunner, I would be surprised and disappointed if any artillery units, and lets not forget 4 ADR/4 GSR, were included in the units given the theatre honours. Our battle honour is Ubique, and that goes for our friends in the engineers.
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Yes, but there is a difference. All over the place vs everywhere.
Ubique
(Royal Artillery)
THERE is a word you often see, pronounce it as you may
“You bike,” “you bykwee,” “ubbikwe “—alludin’ to R.A.
It serves ’Orse, Field, an’ Garrison as motto for a crest,
An’ when you’ve found out all it means I’ll tell you ’alf the rest.
Ubique means the long-range Krupp be’ind the low-range ’ill—
Ubique means you’ll pick it up an’, while you do, stand still.
Ubique means you’ve caught the flash an’ timed it by the sound.
Ubique means five gunners’ ’ash before you’ve loosed a round.
Ubique means Blue Fuse an’ make the ’ole to sink the trail.
Ubique means stand up an’ take the Mauser’s ’alf-mile ’ail.
Ubique means the crazy team not God nor man can ’old.
Ubique means that ’orse’s scream which turns your innards cold!
Ubique means “Bank, ’Olborn, Bank—a penny all the way—
The soothin’, jingle-bump-an’-clank from day to peaceful day.
Ubique means “They’ve caught De Wet, an’ now we sha’n t be long.”
Ubique means “I much regret, the beggar’s goin’ strong!”
Ubique means the tearin’ drift where, breech-blocks jammed with mud,
The khaki muzzles duck an’ lift across the khaki flood.
Ubique means the dancing plain that changes rocks to Boers.
Ubique means the mirage again an’ shellin’ all outdoors.
Ubique means “Entrain at once for Grootdefeatfontein”!
Ubique means “Off-load your guns”—at midnight in the rain!
Ubique means “More mounted men. Return all guns to store.”
Ubique means the R. A. M. R. Infantillery Corps!
Ubique means that warnin’ grunt the perished linesman knows,
When o’er ’is strung an’ sufferin’ front the shrapnel sprays ’is foes;
An’ as their firin’ dies away the ’usky whisper runs
From lips that ’ave n’t drunk all day: “The Guns! Thank Gawd, the Guns!”
Extreme, depressed, point-blank or short, end-first or any’ow,
From Colesberg Kop to Quagga’s Poort—from Ninety-Nine till now—
By what I’ve ’eard the others tell an’ I in spots ’ave seen,
There’s nothin’ this side ’Eaven or ’Ell Ubique does n’t mean!
(Royal Artillery)
THERE is a word you often see, pronounce it as you may
“You bike,” “you bykwee,” “ubbikwe “—alludin’ to R.A.
It serves ’Orse, Field, an’ Garrison as motto for a crest,
An’ when you’ve found out all it means I’ll tell you ’alf the rest.
Ubique means the long-range Krupp be’ind the low-range ’ill—
Ubique means you’ll pick it up an’, while you do, stand still.
Ubique means you’ve caught the flash an’ timed it by the sound.
Ubique means five gunners’ ’ash before you’ve loosed a round.
Ubique means Blue Fuse an’ make the ’ole to sink the trail.
Ubique means stand up an’ take the Mauser’s ’alf-mile ’ail.
Ubique means the crazy team not God nor man can ’old.
Ubique means that ’orse’s scream which turns your innards cold!
Ubique means “Bank, ’Olborn, Bank—a penny all the way—
The soothin’, jingle-bump-an’-clank from day to peaceful day.
Ubique means “They’ve caught De Wet, an’ now we sha’n t be long.”
Ubique means “I much regret, the beggar’s goin’ strong!”
Ubique means the tearin’ drift where, breech-blocks jammed with mud,
The khaki muzzles duck an’ lift across the khaki flood.
Ubique means the dancing plain that changes rocks to Boers.
Ubique means the mirage again an’ shellin’ all outdoors.
Ubique means “Entrain at once for Grootdefeatfontein”!
Ubique means “Off-load your guns”—at midnight in the rain!
Ubique means “More mounted men. Return all guns to store.”
Ubique means the R. A. M. R. Infantillery Corps!
Ubique means that warnin’ grunt the perished linesman knows,
When o’er ’is strung an’ sufferin’ front the shrapnel sprays ’is foes;
An’ as their firin’ dies away the ’usky whisper runs
From lips that ’ave n’t drunk all day: “The Guns! Thank Gawd, the Guns!”
Extreme, depressed, point-blank or short, end-first or any’ow,
From Colesberg Kop to Quagga’s Poort—from Ninety-Nine till now—
By what I’ve ’eard the others tell an’ I in spots ’ave seen,
There’s nothin’ this side ’Eaven or ’Ell Ubique does n’t mean!
Jungle
Army.ca Veteran
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E.R. Campbell said:
I don't think it makes much difference; we have France and Flanders 1915-1918, Sicily 1943, Italy 1943-1945, North West Europe 1945 and Korea 1950-1953 displayed on our colours, which are theater honours, but all are called Battle Honours. It is my guess specific battle honours will follow in the future.
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Jungle said:
Those are actually campaign honours, which are a subset of battle honours (and hence displayed on the Colours). Not knowing what sorts of Battle Honours will be awarded, it is concievable that the campaign honour of "Afghanistan 2006-2011" would be awarded to Regiments deployed at least a sub-unit or more to that mission with any specific battles also being honoured (Panjwayi? Medusa?).
A useful read:
http://regimentalrogue.com/battlehonours/grod_btlhnrs.htm
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I think there should be (a) Battle Honour(s) for Afghanistan, but I'll repeat myself and say that while I do not oppose updating or Canadianizing the system for awarding such honours, I hope we keep the standards high.
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Unless I'm mistaken its my understanding that Honours are not granted to Branches within the CAF such as the Log Branch or MP Branch as well as organizations such as the Service Battalions and medical units? Understanding of course that while these units, and/or persons within those trades/branches, served with distinction they are seen as being "in support" of the others. Am I assuming correctly?
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Old Sweat: You're not the only one who can Kipple.
Sappers
When the Waters were dried an' the Earth did appear,
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
The Lord He created the Engineer,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineer,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!
When the Flood come along for an extra monsoon,
'Twas Noah constructed the first pontoon
To the plans of Her Majesty's, etc.
But after fatigue in the wet an' the sun,
Old Noah got drunk, which he wouldn't ha' done
If he'd trained with, etc.
When the Tower o' Babel had mixed up men's bat,
Some clever civilian was managing that,
An' none of, etc.
When the Jews had a fight at the foot of a hill,
Young Joshua ordered the sun to stand still,
For he was a Captain of Engineers, etc.
When the Children of Israel made bricks without straw,
They were learnin' the regular work of our Corps,
The work of, etc.
For ever since then, if a war they would wage,
Behold us a-shinin' on history's page --
First page for, etc.
We lay down their sidings an' help 'em entrain,
An' we sweep up their mess through the bloomin' campaign,
In the style of, etc.
They send us in front with a fuse an' a mine
To blow up the gates that are rushed by the Line,
But bent by, etc.
They send us behind with a pick an' a spade,
To dig for the guns of a bullock-brigade
Which has asked for, etc.
We work under escort in trousers and shirt,
An' the heathen they plug us tail-up in the dirt,
Annoying, etc.
We blast out the rock an' we shovel the mud,
We make 'em good roads an' -- they roll down the khud,
Reporting, etc.
We make 'em their bridges, their wells, an' their huts,
An' the telegraph-wire the enemy cuts,
An' it's blamed on, etc.
An' when we return, an' from war we would cease,
They grudge us adornin' the billets of peace,
Which are kept for, etc.
We build 'em nice barracks -- they swear they are bad,
That our Colonels are Methodist, married or mad,
Insultin', etc.
They haven't no manners nor gratitude too,
For the more that we help 'em, the less will they do,
But mock at, etc.
Now the Line's but a man with a gun in his hand,
An' Cavalry's only what horses can stand,
When helped by, etc.
Artillery moves by the leave o' the ground,
But we are the men that do something all round,
For we are, etc.
I have stated it plain, an' my argument's thus
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
There's only one Corps which is perfect -- that's us;
An' they call us Her Majesty's Engineers,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!
Sappers
When the Waters were dried an' the Earth did appear,
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
The Lord He created the Engineer,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineer,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!
When the Flood come along for an extra monsoon,
'Twas Noah constructed the first pontoon
To the plans of Her Majesty's, etc.
But after fatigue in the wet an' the sun,
Old Noah got drunk, which he wouldn't ha' done
If he'd trained with, etc.
When the Tower o' Babel had mixed up men's bat,
Some clever civilian was managing that,
An' none of, etc.
When the Jews had a fight at the foot of a hill,
Young Joshua ordered the sun to stand still,
For he was a Captain of Engineers, etc.
When the Children of Israel made bricks without straw,
They were learnin' the regular work of our Corps,
The work of, etc.
For ever since then, if a war they would wage,
Behold us a-shinin' on history's page --
First page for, etc.
We lay down their sidings an' help 'em entrain,
An' we sweep up their mess through the bloomin' campaign,
In the style of, etc.
They send us in front with a fuse an' a mine
To blow up the gates that are rushed by the Line,
But bent by, etc.
They send us behind with a pick an' a spade,
To dig for the guns of a bullock-brigade
Which has asked for, etc.
We work under escort in trousers and shirt,
An' the heathen they plug us tail-up in the dirt,
Annoying, etc.
We blast out the rock an' we shovel the mud,
We make 'em good roads an' -- they roll down the khud,
Reporting, etc.
We make 'em their bridges, their wells, an' their huts,
An' the telegraph-wire the enemy cuts,
An' it's blamed on, etc.
An' when we return, an' from war we would cease,
They grudge us adornin' the billets of peace,
Which are kept for, etc.
We build 'em nice barracks -- they swear they are bad,
That our Colonels are Methodist, married or mad,
Insultin', etc.
They haven't no manners nor gratitude too,
For the more that we help 'em, the less will they do,
But mock at, etc.
Now the Line's but a man with a gun in his hand,
An' Cavalry's only what horses can stand,
When helped by, etc.
Artillery moves by the leave o' the ground,
But we are the men that do something all round,
For we are, etc.
I have stated it plain, an' my argument's thus
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
There's only one Corps which is perfect -- that's us;
An' they call us Her Majesty's Engineers,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!
MedCorps
Sr. Member
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Schindler's Lift said:
You are correct, the RCMS is not granted battle honours. That being said, we were given a Royal Banner from our Col-in-Chief for our service in Afghanistan this past October.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc=colonel-in-chief-her-royal-highness-the-princess-royal-visits-the-royal-canadian-medical-service/hn4a3adw
http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2013/10/23/princess-anne-visits-base-borden
MC
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The following units will be receiving the Theatre Honours (not Battle Honours):
ARABIAN SEA
Royal Canadian Navy Units
HMCS Algonquin
HMCS Calgary
HMCS Charlottetown
HMCS Fredericton
HMCS Halifax
HMCS Iroquois
HMCS Montréal
HMCS Ottawa
HMCS Preserver
HMCS Protecteur
HMCS Regina
HMCS St. John’s
HMCS Toronto
HMCS Vancouver
HMCS Winnipeg
AFGHANISTAN
Royal Canadian Navy Units
Fleet Diving Unit (Atlantic)
Fleet Diving Unit (Pacific)
Canadian Army Units
The Royal Canadian Dragoons
Lord Strathcona’s Horse (Royal Canadians)
12e Régiment blindé du Canada 1
The Governor General’s Horse Guards
The Ontario Regiment (RCAC)
The Queen’s York Rangers (1st American Regiment) (RCAC)
8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise’s)
1st Hussars
The Prince Edward Island Regiment (RCAC)
The Royal Canadian Hussars (Montreal)
The British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught’s Own)
The South Alberta Light Horse
The Saskatchewan Dragoons
The King’s Own Calgary Regiment (RCAC)
The British Columbia Dragoons
The Fort Garry Horse
Le Régiment de Hull (RCAC)
The Windsor Regiment (RCAC)
The Royal Canadian Regiment 2
Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry
Royal 22e Régiment 3
Governor General’s Foot Guards
The Canadian Grenadier Guards
The Queen’s Own Rifles of Canada
The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada
Les Voltigeurs de Québec
The Royal Regiment of Canada
The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment)
The Princess of Wales’ Own Regiment
The Lincoln and Welland Regiment
The Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada
The Grey and Simcoe Foresters
The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin and Halton Regiment)
The Brockville Rifles
Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders
Les Fusiliers du St-Laurent
Le Régiment de la Chaudière
Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal
The Princess Louise Fusiliers
The Royal New Brunswick Regiment
The West Nova Scotia Regiment
The Nova Scotia Highlanders
The CapeBreton Highlanders
Le Régiment de Maisonneuve
The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa (Duke of Edinburgh’s Own)
The Royal Winnipeg Rifles
The Essex and Kent Scottish
48th Highlanders of Canada
Le Régiment du Saguenay
The Algonquin Regiment
The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise’s)
The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment
The North Saskatchewan Regiment
The Royal Regina Rifles
The Rocky Mountain Rangers
The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry)
The Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada
The Royal Westminster Regiment
The Calgary Highlanders
Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke
The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary’s)
The Royal Montreal Regiment
The Irish Regiment of Canada
The Toronto Scottish Regiment (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother’s Own)
Royal Canadian Air Force Units
408 Tactical Helicopter Squadron
427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron
430 Tactical Helicopter Squadron
436 Transport Squadron
Special Forces
Canadian Special Operations Regiment
1 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by its Regular and Reserve Force regiments
2 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by all of its Regular and Reserve Force battalions
3 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by all of its Regular and Reserve Force battalions
ARABIAN SEA
Royal Canadian Navy Units
HMCS Algonquin
HMCS Calgary
HMCS Charlottetown
HMCS Fredericton
HMCS Halifax
HMCS Iroquois
HMCS Montréal
HMCS Ottawa
HMCS Preserver
HMCS Protecteur
HMCS Regina
HMCS St. John’s
HMCS Toronto
HMCS Vancouver
HMCS Winnipeg
AFGHANISTAN
Royal Canadian Navy Units
Fleet Diving Unit (Atlantic)
Fleet Diving Unit (Pacific)
Canadian Army Units
The Royal Canadian Dragoons
Lord Strathcona’s Horse (Royal Canadians)
12e Régiment blindé du Canada 1
The Governor General’s Horse Guards
The Ontario Regiment (RCAC)
The Queen’s York Rangers (1st American Regiment) (RCAC)
8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise’s)
1st Hussars
The Prince Edward Island Regiment (RCAC)
The Royal Canadian Hussars (Montreal)
The British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught’s Own)
The South Alberta Light Horse
The Saskatchewan Dragoons
The King’s Own Calgary Regiment (RCAC)
The British Columbia Dragoons
The Fort Garry Horse
Le Régiment de Hull (RCAC)
The Windsor Regiment (RCAC)
The Royal Canadian Regiment 2
Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry
Royal 22e Régiment 3
Governor General’s Foot Guards
The Canadian Grenadier Guards
The Queen’s Own Rifles of Canada
The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada
Les Voltigeurs de Québec
The Royal Regiment of Canada
The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment)
The Princess of Wales’ Own Regiment
The Lincoln and Welland Regiment
The Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada
The Grey and Simcoe Foresters
The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin and Halton Regiment)
The Brockville Rifles
Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders
Les Fusiliers du St-Laurent
Le Régiment de la Chaudière
Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal
The Princess Louise Fusiliers
The Royal New Brunswick Regiment
The West Nova Scotia Regiment
The Nova Scotia Highlanders
The CapeBreton Highlanders
Le Régiment de Maisonneuve
The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa (Duke of Edinburgh’s Own)
The Royal Winnipeg Rifles
The Essex and Kent Scottish
48th Highlanders of Canada
Le Régiment du Saguenay
The Algonquin Regiment
The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise’s)
The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment
The North Saskatchewan Regiment
The Royal Regina Rifles
The Rocky Mountain Rangers
The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry)
The Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada
The Royal Westminster Regiment
The Calgary Highlanders
Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke
The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary’s)
The Royal Montreal Regiment
The Irish Regiment of Canada
The Toronto Scottish Regiment (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother’s Own)
Royal Canadian Air Force Units
408 Tactical Helicopter Squadron
427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron
430 Tactical Helicopter Squadron
436 Transport Squadron
Special Forces
Canadian Special Operations Regiment
1 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by its Regular and Reserve Force regiments
2 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by all of its Regular and Reserve Force battalions
3 As a regimental-level award, the theatre honour “Afghanistan” is awarded to the regiment and shared by all of its Regular and Reserve Force battalions
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Schindler's Lift said:
Even "Theatre Honours" fall under the general label of Battle Honours.
Battle Honours - Theatre, Battle, Action, Engagement
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All Theatre Honours are Battle Honours, but not all Battle Honours are Theatre Honours.Michael O'Leary said:
Thanks for this and other honours info you share - Milpoints inbound.
Infanteer said:
I would hope that whatever modernizing of our battle honours system occurs allows the Afghanistna theatre honour to be displayed on colours. I can think of no good reason why it ought not, and if tradition precludes it with being so, then make the call that traditions are guidance, not dogma and do it anyway.
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Brihard said:
There's no "tradition" that says Afghanistan would not be approved for emblazonment, we just need to see the official orders awarding it the units. The only limitation that prevents emblazonment is the restriction to no more than ten emblazoned honours for each of the World Wars.
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The PM also announced that "Afghanistan" and the related dates would be carved into the National War Memorial.
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dapaterson said:
So with that having been said, what was (or will) our experience in Afghanistan be called? Is it correct to refer to it as the Afghan War (although we were not at war with Afghanistan) the Afghanistan Conflict (kinda too mild given events that transpired), Canada's Mission in Afghanistan (not very catchy) or what? Whats the "name" going to be or what is already accepted?
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