Australia turns down surplus Dutch PzH2000 howitzers (from Janes Defence Weekly)

[geo]

doesn't appear to be much of a rush to replace the M109s
With the purchase of the M777s & the chinooks, the CF appears to at least be content having restored it's capacity to shoot 155s and provide mobility to the gun.

it certainly isn't the Cadillac solution but, at a time when we are rushing the acquisition of various essential kit, the purchase of new SP capacity isn't there.

 

[onecat]

I meant your Armour as a whole. We buy less of any new gear than we had previously. (ie less new Abrams than retired Leo 1s). Canada seems to be actually increasing its equipment portfolio on the whole, and all the better for it.

Actually that has been the canadian pacitice as well the Liberals. And apart from the Leo's I haven't seen canada buy more anything recently although I could be wrong as this gov't seems to have more resecpt for the Military than the Liberals had.  In fact if Dion was to win in the next election I can see a whole sale cut in the CF.

 

[tdr_aust]

This has been an interesting thread. I was under an impression we would have gone with the PzH2000, but not specifically the Dutch ones. I an mot sure if this article means we will not still go that way, but it does not sound promising.
Some where along the process I did get the feeling we would be pushing more for a wheeled SP model, but I think my reasoning here was based on some vague writings that filtered off a truck along the way.

Recently a small piece of paper fell my way off a truck dated 2007; I suspect early 07, with a 155 SP that sort of confirms my theory of wheels and an approach to the SP 155 issues. It was a picture titled G6 Self-propelled Gun (AS)
Prior to seeing this recent picture I have only see a tracked SP represented in similar bits of paper.

It is interesting because even if it at this point in time it is an “exercise” concept, to use wheels and not track may point to thinking in the system.

 

[geo]

From the gossip around the water cooler, we're pert much committed to the "new" M777 towed howitzer.

Our M109s are sitting there, leaking oil onto the tarmack in Montreal.... not much going on in that direction.
Where our guns are going.... is anyone's guess.

 

[tdr_aust]

From what is here, this thread, and what I have seen elsewhere I think we are locked into the M777 for a towed piece. The SP is for the Mech Brigade.
Perhaps they think wheels will be better in the Territory than tracks, or when they try to rail them down south for a few exercises in the re sized Cultana range

 

[geo]

for the immediate moment, the M777 which is towable or airportable is doing a good job at bringing down "fire and damnation" onto the Taliban.

Are we "locked into it"? don't think so - but it'll do the job for the immediate moment - and we can worry about other guns once we've replaced some other kit....

 

[tdr_aust]

I used the words ‘locked in loosely’ as the M777 was, from memory, the only towed gun that fits the requirements of LAND 17.

Sept 27/07: Australia's DoD releases LAND 17 solicitation documents. The systems to be acquired include protected self-propelled howitzers; lightweight towed airportable howitzers; and a digitised, networked battle management system. The battle management system includes the Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data System for the command and control of joint fires, and digital terminal control systems for target acquisition

There was something about a refurbishment, ie bring up to date, of the current M198s, but I think that proposed solution was dumped. This was an option to the purchase of new gear. I have the article on this somewhere but my office needs a bit of a reorg, (tidy up).

On a side note and someone my be able to correct me from the Armour side, When we got the Abrams I have the feeling we did not get the gear for the Special Ops Trp. But I may be wrong here.

 

[geo]

The US are refurbishing all or most of their M109s to extend their life a little while longer.
Wether we decide to tag onto their production line of even sell em our slightly used M109s is anyone's guess.

 

[tdr_aust]

I read that, it was the fire control system for the M109s.
DID has some thing on it here:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cat/ordnance-guns/guns-artillery-mortars/page/3/


This I suspect the following explains our delightful situation.
It comes from the online Defence Industry Daily.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australias-a-450m600m-land-17-artillery-replacement-gets-goahead-01928/

The Minister's release notes that once in service, the new artillery pieces will be used to re-equip units based in Darwin, Townsville, Brisbane and the Combined Arms Training Centre in Puckapunyal, Victoria. This translates into:

* 8/12 Medium Regiment (M198 155mm, Palmerston near Darwin)
* 4 Field Regiment (L119 105mm, Townsville)
* 1 Field Regiment (L119 105mm, Enoggera Barracks near Brisbane)

Since all of the current contenders are 155mm systems, the 8/12's M198 howitzers will likely be devolved to other units. Based on the Minister's statement, all regular Australian Army units would then become standardized on 155mm artillery.

While no decisions have been made yet, one scenario for follow-on effects is that the 8/12 Medium Regiment's M198 howitzers would transfer to reserve units. They would supply the single battery of 3 Field Regiment plus the two independent batteries of the former 6/13 Field Regiment, replacing their vintage M2A2 guns that predate the Vietnam War. This would leave the reserve units of 7 Field Regiment and 23 Field Regiment in New South Wales operating the L119 Hamels, as the only remaining 105mm artillery in the ADF.

Well back to serious work..

 

[Colin Parkinson]

doesn't appear to be much of a rush to replace the M109s
With the purchase of the M777s & the chinooks, the CF appears to at least be content having restored it's capacity to shoot 155s and provide mobility to the gun.

it certainly isn't the Cadillac solution but, at a time when we are rushing the acquisition of various essential kit, the purchase of new SP capacity isn't there.

I happen to know that some M109's are being sold off to private hands.

 

[geo]

Private hands?
Do you mean like they did with some of the Leo1s that ended up being painted fire-engine red & got drafted into forest fire fighting?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I can't really say much, other than to a collector.