Assault troop

[L.Ron]

I was going through some leaflets the other day and had two describing the armour occupation. One older than the other. For specialty training courses the older one had Assault Pioneer listed. On the newer leaflet that is gone but Support Trooper has been added. Is this the same thing? Has the word assault become politically incorrect or something? How about Liberal Love Pioneer? That would be nice. What exactly does an assault pioneer do? Nothing mean I hope. Also does support Trooper basically mean Infantry attached to armour?

Thanks and Take care

 

[Brad Sallows]

pioneer - a plant or animal capable of establishing itself in a bare, barren, or open area and initiating an ecological cycle

 

[Recce41]

As an ex Assault troop Sgt, no they are not grunts. Their Armour crewmen skilled in Inf/Eng tasks. They are part of the Bge Recce Sqn. Some tasks are demo, mine clearing, obs, etc. They are the most skilled of any trade (cbt). They must have all the skills of an Armour crewmen ie gunnery, Inf ie patroling, section attacks,Eng mines and demo. Also they have an Anti tank asset/mortors. The old Assault Pioneer course was 12 weeks now the Assault Trooper course is only 6 weeks. Due to cost. Some course different name. It is the only job left in the cbt arms due to the Pineers are gone.

Sgt J. CD,CDS com :tank:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Recce41 is intimintely more qualified to handle this one. Assault troop is a crewman responsibility within the Armoured Recce Sqn. They do a little of all combat arms trade‘s jobs, Eng, Inf, Arty and Armour. And many times do it better because of the flexibility and resources they have. I‘ll let Recce41 fill in the blanks for you.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What can I say. Great minds think alike......(no need to fill in the rest )

 

[Recce41]

Recceguy alil mind mend happening.
Sgt J. CD,CDS com :tank:

 

[Black6]

When I joined 17 years ago - that course was called "Armoured Commando" HOOAH!

 

[Recce41]

I don‘t think so Blacky, there is no such course. I‘ve been around for 22 yrs and, its been Assault Pioneer (ARMOUR) or Assault Trooper. Where did you get that one. So if it was send me the CTP, I like to see that. I‘ve been with the Airborne Btl Group all those yrs, and we in 1st Tp Recce weren‘t
even called that.
Sgt J. Cd,CDS com :tank:

 

[Black6]

Recce 41

I‘ve only seen it called that once...but never forgot about it.

I was on Pre-Reso in Pet in the summer ‘85. Saw a sheet with all the courses going on that summer in Pet (reserve crses). It was sounded so cool I asked my crse WO about it (WO Hilchey).

Armd Commando was basically the support trooper crse under a catchy name - that‘s all. Never saw it since. They had that crazy reserve commando course ther that summer too - it was all PT and crazy crap. It was cancelled after the one and only serial!

I happen to still know the man that was in charge of all reserve courses there that summer - I could ask him for the CTS/CTP you think I‘m lying. It doubt he would keep junk like that around (I wouldn‘t - would you?) but no harm in asking.

Cheers!

 

[Recce41]

Yes Blacky I do keep some old stuff. I have old 5/4 lesson plans , jeep, Cougar etc. I was a Course WO for a CJ course and was lucky I kept that junk. And like I said only in the Reserves would they call it that. I‘ve seen some weird names for basic courses. IE Tank Commander Tank (Cougar) if a Cougar‘s a tank whats a Leopard.
Sgt J. CD,CDS com (Airborne,Bold and Swift) :tank:

 

[Black6]

Recce 41:

You never said: "And like I said only in the Reserves would they call it that." until your last post - it is a reference to nothing.

Seems like the Reserves aren‘t the only ones being creative, eh?

A Question: you referred to a CJ crse that you have the lesson plans for. Why are you "lucky" to have kept that stuff? (just wondering).

I will ask the old Col about the subj crse and get back to you.

Cheers!

 

[Recce41]

Well Blacky, If you want to be a F****** weenie go ahead. Most people would know what I mean‘t by lucky. And for the name, it was toward the Armour Commando course, only Reserves and Cadets change the names. So if you want to be beligerant go ahead, most people here have no time for it. We‘re here to pass on imfo and ideas to improve the Forces and our knowledge of. Does anyone have a different opinion?
Sgt J. CD,CDS com :tank:

 

[Infanteer]

Whoa sirs, lets take a step back.
Between the two of you there is a ton of experience, and all of us younger guys have benefited from it. Don‘t channel it into a useless pissing match...we can go to SOCNET for that.

 

[Cannon Fodder]

I have hear that we no longer have assault troops.  Is this true, and if so why did we get rid of them?  Are they not suitable to "peace support" type fighting like in afghanistan?

 

[Slim]

I have hear that we no longer have assault troops.   Is this true, and if so why did we get rid of them?   Are they not suitable to "peace support" type fighting like in afghanistan?

Assault troops no longer exist within the Armoured Corps.

Canada has no peacekeepers. Canada has soldiers who occasionally deploy on peacekeeping missions...Until someone starts shooting at them, in which case they turn into "Peace-Making" missions.

Slim

 

[Zoomie]

I have hear that we no longer have assault troops.

I don' think your idea of what the Armoured Assault Troop is entirely realistic.  These were not kill squads - more like dedicated patrollers and ambush teams within the armour context.

 

[Slim]

I don' think your idea of what the Armoured Assault Troop is entirely realistic.   These were not kill squads - more like dedicated patrollers and ambush teams within the armour context.

They also had engineer skills.

 

[McG]

They also had engineer skills.

See here for more on that side of having lost the assault troops: Replacing Pioneers and Assault Troops 

 

[Reccesoldier]

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. First off I have to clarify something that often gets messed up in translation.

Assault troop's primary role is "the ground element of a Reconnaissance Squadron" They are not pioneers, nor are they engineers.

The primary tasks of assault troop were dismounted Patrolling (Standing/Recce/LRRP and occasionally fighting patrols), OP's (of the mud variety in support of the deaf and sight limited technology of the Coyote), Vital Point Defence, counter recce operations (Anti armour ambushes, constructing minor obstacles), limited assault capability, NBCD Recce's and mine warfare (clearing and laying of... on a limited scale)

Obviously many of these tasks are done by both Engineers and Pioneers but it is the combination of all of them and their particular utility to a Recce Sqn 25-50Km in advance of the FLOT that made the elimination of the assault troop (in my opinion) the worst possible cut to the Recce Sqn/Regt.

Having said that though, although the visually challenged in HQ may have done away with assault troop, with the lack of "recce" platforms in the RCD (don't know about the other Regts) at least one Sqn (B) has a "Dismounted Troop". Except for some of the Gucci kit and training real assault troops get they will be doing much the same job.

On a personal note, being the new Tp WO has given me my "hat trick", that is to say I've held every position in an "assault troop" from Cpl to WO  ;D

I'm not willing to let the Assault Troop idea (or much of the training) die and firmly believe, that sooner rather than later the Corps will realize it's mistake.

 

[reccecrewman]

Is that the plan to have a dismounted Troop within our Squadrons or a lack of enough Coyotes to go around?