Army Reserve Restructuring

[MilEME09]

Everyone shares all the tasks, both good and bad, as part of an integrated team of course.

Unless you have crappy leadership, then all bets are off

sounds like we tours come out and magically HQ fills a majority of the roles before it reaches units......funny how that works......

 

[Halifax Tar]

I deployed in a reserve force protection platoon. We had three on my tour: two out of KAF, and one in the PRT. In the PRT I spent a fair bit of my tour doing Foot and mounted patrols around Kandahar city while our s
my sister platoons were doing long convoy escort jobs. Between the long training period, and the tour, I can back as a much better Cpl. Point being that those who wouldn’t do a job that was beneath their own egos never deployed and never developed, then complained about not getting a tour. While it’s a shitty job, I don’t know that it was farmed out simply because the reg force didn’t want to do it, at the time were were sending a Bn, plus two companies between the OMLT and PRT. We had a need for another company of soldiers and I don’t know how else it could have been done. I think maintaining cohesion in the Bn slated for the BG probably made sense. Not to contradict the well developed sense of being hard done by the reserves love the wrap itself in.




Design implies intent, I don’t think the Army Reserve system displays any evidence of any kind of intent in its design.

My understanding is the Army was told what and how many positions would be FG'd from reserves and from augmentation, like myself.

I know from my time in 2 CMBG we never had a lack of volunteers for Afg deployments. In fact a lot of broken hearts and animosity was caused by "come from aways" taking their deployment positions.

The ARes and augmentees were sort of like the lil bro that mom made you take with you. That's how it was explained to me, many years ago, anyways.

 

[Kirkhill]

@daftandbarmy referenced the MOD Plod (Ministry of Defence Police). But the Brits also engage the Military Provost Guard Service, the RAF Regiment and 43 Commando in Security.

Military Provost Guard Service - ~1500???

The Military Provost Guard Service (MPGS) provides professional soldiers to meet armed security requirements at Royal Navy, Army, Royal Air Force and other Ministry of Defence bases in Great Britain. Our primary role is to counter the terrorist threat posed to military bases in Great Britain.

Our duties include:

Controlling entry and exit to a site.

Managing control room operations and ensuring all visitors are dealt with efficiently.

Patrolling site perimeters and taking necessary action to preserve perimeter security.

Security incident management, such as suspicious packages, bomb threats, protests, etc.

Military Working Dog services at some sites.

The MPGS is part of the Provost Branch of the Adjutant General's Corps and is under the direction of Provost Marshal (Army), who is the Director and Head of Service. Our units are formed under the command of their respective Head of Establishment, with Provost Marshal (Army) maintaining technical standards through annual inspections.

Each MPGS unit has a structured rank system that provides opportunities for promotion to Senior Non-Commissioned Officer, and Warrant Officer Class Two rank at some sites. Given the size of the MPGS, a number of Warrant Officer Class One opportunities exist across the country. Promotion is based on merit and uses the same system of annual performance appraisal in line with the current Tri-Service guidance for appraisal reporting.

Stationed at over 100 sites, we have our own Military Local Service Contract which allows soldiers to choose where they wish to serve, providing there is a vacancy.

Provost Marshal (Army) & 1 MP Brigade form the Provost Branch of the Adjutant General's Corps. We are made up of 3 distinct organisations, the Royal Military Police (RMP), the Military Provost Staff (MPS) and the Military Provost Guard Service (MPGS). Each organisation has its own cap badge, history, identity and specific roles and responsibilities.

Our branch comprises of almost 4300 Regular and Reserve Personnel, working alongside other Army units wherever the Army is based.

The Royal Military Police (RMP) has a regular manning liability of approximately 2500 personnel
The Military Provost Staff (MPS) are the Army's specialists in Custody and Detention, providing advice, inspection and surety.
The Military Provost Guard Service (MPGS) provides trained professional soldiers to meet Defence armed security requirements.

43 Commando - 550 All Ranks

43 Commando Fleet Protection Group Royal Marines have a vital core mission: preventing unauthorised access to the UK’s strategic nuclear deterrent. They work on operations in the UK, and refine their skills through continuous training exercises at home and abroad.

The unit is also part of 3 Commando Brigade, the UK’s high-readiness expeditionary amphibious force. From counter-piracy and counter-narcotics to maritime interdiction operations, 3 Commando Brigade protects, secures and safeguards across the Middle East, Africa and the Caribbean.

RAF Regiment - 1,850[2] regulars (2021), 570 reserves (2016)

The RAF Regiment is a specialist corps founded by Royal Warrant in 1942. Its principal purpose is to counter our adversaries across a wide spectrum of threats, wherever and whenever necessary. The RAF Regiment also prepares non-Force Protection specialists for the rigours of operations. The human dimension is at the core of what we are; people are our fighting edge. The Complex Air Ground Environment (CAGE) – this environment in and around an operational airfield has many multifaceted levels requiring dedicated and specialist protection. Force Protection in the CAGE is our raison d’etre.

The RAF Regiment has seven regular and six reserve squadrons organised in to 7 wings. In addition, the RAF Regiment provides Joint Terminal Attack Controllers (JTACs) to the British Army and Royal Marines, and provides a flight sized commitment to the Special Forces Support Group.

There are 6 Force Protection Wings based across the UK. Two of the Wings are designated as the lead part of the Joint Expeditionary Force and are focused on RAF Police and RAF Regiment expeditionary capability inclusive of Armoured Vehicles (Wheeled) and Military Working Dogs. The second Joint Expeditionary Force Wing also delivers RAF Ceremonial and Joint Terminal Attack Controller capability. The 4 Multirole Force Protection Wings are tasked with providing a particular aircraft type or role with the necessary defence. The Multirole Wings are responsible for a geographic security region with the home base as well as being the units of choice to deploy alongside their aligned aircraft types.

MOD Police - As of March 2019, the force had a workforce of around 2,549 police officers and 227 police staff

As an MDP PC Authorised Firearms Officer (AFO), on a day-to-day basis you will:

• carry out static armed duties and patrols by foot and vehicle, working with other policing and security partners in and around the sites you protect
• provide a vital role in deterring threats and reassuring staff, as well as the general public in the surrounding area

Not every shift will be lively and it may sometimes seem like nothing is happening, but you need to be prepared to respond if, and when, something does happen. Your work is of national importance.

For that reason, you’ll need to have physical and mental stamina and be able to maintain your concentration, remaining alert and vigilant at all times and being confident to take control of situations.

Good communication skills, resilience, team working and integrity are essential, with the ability to speak and listen carefully to assess information and provide guidance and advice.

MOD Guard Service - 2500

The MGS has guarded the defence estate for over 25 years and provides unarmed guarding services for over 100 sites in England, Scotland and Wales, including high profile locations such as MOD Main Building in London and His Majesty’s Naval Bases at Portsmouth, Devonport and the Clyde.

These are separate from the Royal Navy Police, the Royal Military Police and the Royal Air Force Police.

So -

MOD Police - ~2800
MOD Guards - ~2500
Provo Guards - ~1500
RAF Regiment - ~2400
43 Commando - 550

Estimated Total - 9,700 (About 4% of the Total Defence Establishment dedicated to site security)

UK Defence Establishment - 225,920

Civilians - 59,960
Army - 75,930
RN - 29,500
RAF - 29,500

Total Full Time - 194,890

Army Reserve - 25,340
RN Reserve - 2,800
RAF Reserve - 2,890

Total Reserve - 31,030


Canada's Defence Establishment - 127,180

Civilians - 27,000
Regulars - 68,000
Reserve - 27,000
Rangers - 5,183

Are there 5500 people in the Canadian Defence Establishment tasked with site security? Force Protection?

 

[markppcli]

@daftandbarmy referenced the MOD Plod (Ministry of Defence Police). But the Brits also engage the Military Provost Guard Service, the RAF Regiment and 43 Commando in Security.

Military Provost Guard Service - ~1500???





43 Commando - 550 All Ranks



RAF Regiment - 1,850[2] regulars (2021), 570 reserves (2016)



MOD Police - As of March 2019, the force had a workforce of around 2,549 police officers and 227 police staff



MOD Guard Service - 2500



These are separate from the Royal Navy Police, the Royal Military Police and the Royal Air Force Police.

So -

MOD Police - ~2800
MOD Guards - ~2500
Provo Guards - ~1500
RAF Regiment - ~2400
43 Commando - 550

Estimated Total - 9,700 (About 4% of the Total Defence Establishment dedicated to site security)

UK Defence Establishment - 225,920

Civilians - 59,960
Army - 75,930
RN - 29,500
RAF - 29,500

Total Full Time - 194,890

Army Reserve - 25,340
RN Reserve - 2,800
RAF Reserve - 2,890

Total Reserve - 31,030


Canada's Defence Establishment - 127,180

Civilians - 27,000
Regulars - 68,000
Reserve - 27,000
Rangers - 5,183

Are there 5500 people in the Canadian Defence Establishment tasked with site security? Force Protection?

No because you’re taking a bit of license with your numbers.

43 Commando also provides boarding teams to the RN’s ships. So what percentage of them are actually engaged in active security at any given time given the RNs op tempo?

The RAF Regiment provides TACPs to UKSOF, Bde HQs, and Artillery Regiments across the UK, as well as having a para tasked unit, I assume you didn’t deduct those per from the total you came up with.

MPGS is a weird trade and I’ll give you those numbers.

MOD Police are a necessity given the lack of a National Police force, any tasks they do we would have done by the RCMP, MPs, or Parliamentary security. MPs in the UK aren’t cops in the way our MPs are.

The MoD Guard Service are essentially commissionaires, so to count them we ought to count the commissionaires.


All this is of course a silly comparison. The security infrastructure in the UK is a hang over from having. An active terrorist threat for the better half of a century. It is then coupled with the probably intelligent decision to have a unit of marines provide naval boarding parties and also secure the nuclear deterrent. Since we sit. Have a nuclear deterrent that’s not a task we need. Finally the RAF Regt are needed so that those that can’t meet the high standard of Britishnifnantry training have somewhere to go, we have a much lower standard so that’s not needed.

 

[markppcli]

I'm talking OUTCAN, not domestic, deployments.

1 CMBG provides security at Cold Lake, 1 Company at a time on a rotation. 5 CMBG provides for Bagotville in the same way. 2 CMBG provides a light company for out can tasks equipped with what ever the light for mobility platform ends up being. There I’ve solved our need for VP guards.

 

[Kirkhill]

Preposition

Gonna need more security guards. 6 guards for every clipboard to maintain 24/7 coverage. Plus a mechanic and an electrician or two.

 

[dapaterson]

1 CMBG provides security at Cold Lake, 1 Company at a time on a rotation. 5 CMBG provides for Bagotville in the same way. 2 CMBG provides a light company for out can tasks equipped with what ever the light for mobility platform ends up being. There I’ve solved our need for VP guards.

Still need more transport to deploy support outside Canada when needed; five C17s isn't enough today, before we start flying base-guard TAPVs overseas to support deployments.

Because even if we let @Kirkhill re-engineer the TAPV to swim, it would take a long, long time to get one to Europe across the Atlantic...

 

[Kirkhill]

Still need more transport to deploy support outside Canada when needed; five C17s isn't enough today, before we start flying base-guard TAPVs overseas to support deployments.

Because even if we let @Kirkhill re-engineer the TAPV to swim, it would take a long, long time to get one to Europe across the Atlantic...

Given its mass I was planning on fitting one of those autonomous driving kits and let it drive itself across the bottom by way of Greenland.

 

[markppcli]

Still need more transport to deploy support outside Canada when needed; five C17s isn't enough today, before we start flying base-guard TAPVs overseas to support deployments.

Because even if we let @Kirkhill re-engineer the TAPV to swim, it would take a long, long time to get one to Europe across the Atlantic...

Hey Kevin thinks they need TAPVs, I think some MRZRs and light stuff is probably enough. They just need to set up some defensive positions.

 

[dapaterson]

Hey Kevin thinks they need TAPVs, I think some MRZRs and light stuff is probably enough. They just need to set up some defensive positions.

They still need to be transported from here to wherever there turns out to be...

 

[KevinB]

Hey Kevin thinks they need TAPVs, I think some MRZRs and light stuff is probably enough. They just need to set up some defensive positions.

My point was that is one of the main roles the armored car is used for down here.

It is a good airfield security vehicle.

The Light stuff is great for FARP’s, but I don’t want to waste a LIB doing D&S work at an airfield that is behind friendly lines.

 

[Kirkhill]

They still need to be transported from here to wherever there turns out to be...

Can't the new MRTTs also carry MRZRs?




Looks to me as if @markppcli could get his VP security company, and a dozen vehicles as well as their kit and radios into one CC-330.

 

[markppcli]

My point was that is one of the main roles the armored car is used for down here.

It is a good airfield security vehicle.

The Light stuff is great for FARP’s, but I don’t want to waste a LIB doing D&S work at an airfield that is behind friendly lines.

What was I saying before about tasks being “beneath people”? We have a need for expeditionary security, we have high readiness forces with operational mobility. Guarding a strategic asset isn’t beneath a light, or even a mechanized Bn. It’s holding ground.

 

[captloadie]

So as a non-Army type, I'm a little confused what the role of the Army Reserve as an organization. Reading through the recent posts, it seems (really broad brush) to be a poorly funded, poorly equipped group of individuals who don't really want to volunteer for anything that may inconvenience them or isn't super cool, and who the Reg F Army doesn't really want to employ in any fixed capacity because they can't be relied upon to meet the manning requirements.

I had thought that anything outside of the hard combat arms trades, the benefit of Army Reserves was they could actually bring in experience that could assist the green machine adopt best practices. Take RCEME folds. I would think that bringing in vehicle technicians who have EV experience as reservists could really help jump start our own programs and training. Or IT specialists who could help develop apps, or design better networks.

 

[KevinB]

What was I saying before about tasks being “beneath people”? We have a need for expeditionary security, we have high readiness forces with operational mobility. Guarding a strategic asset isn’t beneath a light, or even a mechanized Bn. It’s holding ground.

By wasted I mean the main aspect of Light Forces is their mobility. Tying them down guarding a static position robs that.

Sure they can do that - but then they are not available for their primary purpose.

I honestly believe the MP role should be given the airfield security task, at least for domestic and non FARP type operational tasks, as it is more of a LE/Security role than a Close with and Destroy type role.

 

[KevinB]

So as a non-Army type, I'm a little confused what the role of the Army Reserve as an organization. Reading through the recent posts, it seems (really broad brush) to be a poorly funded, poorly equipped group of individuals who don't really want to volunteer for anything that may inconvenience them or isn't super cool, and who the Reg F Army doesn't really want to employ in any fixed capacity because they can't be relied upon to meet the manning requirements.

I had thought that anything outside of the hard combat arms trades, the benefit of Army Reserves was they could actually bring in experience that could assist the green machine adopt best practices. Take RCEME folds. I would think that bringing in vehicle technicians who have EV experience as reservists could really help jump start our own programs and training. Or IT specialists who could help develop apps, or design better networks.

No one is going to make Mil vehicles EV. Hybrid yea, but not electric only.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The ARes and augmentees were sort of like the lil bro that mom made you take with you. That's how it was explained to me, many years ago, anyways.

I suppose it's situational. The prospect of weeks of exercising in Latvian bogs (again) might make having the little brother take your place, more acceptable.

 

[markppcli]

By wasted I mean the main aspect of Light Forces is their mobility. Tying them down guarding a static position robs that.

Sure they can do that - but then they are not available for their primary purpose.

I honestly believe the MP role should be given the airfield security task, at least for domestic and non FARP type operational tasks, as it is more of a LE/Security role than a Close with and Destroy type role.

Gets expensive paying Spec Pay for that task.

 

[dapaterson]

Gets expensive paying Spec Pay for that task.

Some might suggest that a company of RCMP paid by the CAF for CAF policing, coupled with the MPs becoming a non specialist provost corps would be a key part of solving the problems.

 

[markppcli]

Some might suggest that a company of RCMP paid by the CAF for CAF policing, coupled with the MPs becoming a non specialist provost corps would be a key part of solving the problems.