Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)
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Des,
Are you going on course again?
Are you going on course again?
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Sounds like work avoidance to me. See you tommorow
Point 1: DP1 is 75 Training Days
Point 2: LST, CST, IST and CISTM are sub Ocps, everybody (Line, Sig Op and LCIS) will be ACISS. After the common DP1, if you are either ACISS Core or move into DP1.1 for LST, CST and IST. However all do DP2. After that there is a DP2.1 for ACISS Core, LST, CST and IST. Then everybody comes back and does a common DP3. When you are promoted to WO, if you are LST, CST or IST you leave those sub ocps and come back to the ACISS Core trade unless you qual for CISTM.
-Army, Navy and Airforce joined together in 1969....It's not going to work.......CF still here and working
-RCSC disbanded and trades join together with Air and Navy to form C&E Branch.....It's not going to work.......C&E Branch has 5000 pers and is one of the most important branchs in the CF.
-numerious tech trades joined together to form LCIS........It's not going to work........It did work.
-Rad Ops and Tel Ops amalga........It's not going to work..........It worked.
-ACISS.......It's not going to work........It will work.
Point 2: LST, CST, IST and CISTM are sub Ocps, everybody (Line, Sig Op and LCIS) will be ACISS. After the common DP1, if you are either ACISS Core or move into DP1.1 for LST, CST and IST. However all do DP2. After that there is a DP2.1 for ACISS Core, LST, CST and IST. Then everybody comes back and does a common DP3. When you are promoted to WO, if you are LST, CST or IST you leave those sub ocps and come back to the ACISS Core trade unless you qual for CISTM.
-Army, Navy and Airforce joined together in 1969....It's not going to work.......CF still here and working
-RCSC disbanded and trades join together with Air and Navy to form C&E Branch.....It's not going to work.......C&E Branch has 5000 pers and is one of the most important branchs in the CF.
-numerious tech trades joined together to form LCIS........It's not going to work........It did work.
-Rad Ops and Tel Ops amalga........It's not going to work..........It worked.
-ACISS.......It's not going to work........It will work.
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C/S 0 said:
After many command reorganizations and creations, and a return to distinctive environmental uniforms, you mean...
Navy formed a part of C&E Branch? News to me...NRadOps and Nav Sigs (now NavComm) as well as Naval Electronics Techs have no part in the C&E Branch. ATIS Techs are members of the C&E Branch, but are akin to the red-headed step-child.
That depends on whether you're asking an LCIS Tech, or someone who got forced back to one of the operator trades. ;D
I can't comment on that one as I have no personal experience in the matter.
That remains to be seen...
Your first point, all new organiziations, formations, units have growing pains, so will ACISS but that will pass.
Your second point, the Comm Research Trade is a purple trade with Navy pers. The C&E Branch has members from all three services.
Your third point, most LCIS techs I know love being techs and have high morale and pride in their trade, (lol) they love to give it to the Sig Ops.
Your fourth point, Sig Op trade, works, I can speak first hand.
Your last point, ACISS after some growing pains, improvements, will work. The officers and Snr NCMs will come up with the plan and in big letters THE TROOPS will make it work.
Your second point, the Comm Research Trade is a purple trade with Navy pers. The C&E Branch has members from all three services.
Your third point, most LCIS techs I know love being techs and have high morale and pride in their trade, (lol) they love to give it to the Sig Ops.
Your fourth point, Sig Op trade, works, I can speak first hand.
Your last point, ACISS after some growing pains, improvements, will work. The officers and Snr NCMs will come up with the plan and in big letters THE TROOPS will make it work.
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I have to agree with Occom on this one. As for the Rad Op / Tel Op amalgamation. Having dealt with some of the fall out, it hasn't worked quite the way that was planned. First question I have to ask a great many folks is what side of the trade did they start in and when (IF AT ALL) did they do any Tac Rad training. If the answer to the first question is Tel Op, then the answer to the second becomes critical as to where I'll put them to work.
I can't say that I know a whole lot of techs that are happy with what happened during their amalgamation, either. That might be sour grapes from some that got shifted to a place that they weren't unprepared/trained for, but I leave it up to the LCIS folks to explain.
I'm trying to keep an open mind about this whole thing, but so far no one has offered anything even resembling a coherent plan as to where we're going or how this will change anything other than increase the common manpower pool that can be thrown at a problem in the hopes that it will go away.
As for the PAT idea. That has the potential to be another train wreck in the making. We're going to send a bunch of troops to units to get OJT when we can't even employ them because they lack certain qualifications. Why does that strike me as the Branch or CFSCE shifting the problem out of their back yard into some one Else's to get rid of problem. I realise that CFSCE is short staffed, but this isn't going to fix the problem either. I can't see 1, 2, or 5 Sigs Sqn having the time or resources to train these troops. Like wise I can see the ASG Sigs Sqn picking up the slack because they can barely keep up with the demands on their time and skills as it is.
I can't say that I know a whole lot of techs that are happy with what happened during their amalgamation, either. That might be sour grapes from some that got shifted to a place that they weren't unprepared/trained for, but I leave it up to the LCIS folks to explain.
I'm trying to keep an open mind about this whole thing, but so far no one has offered anything even resembling a coherent plan as to where we're going or how this will change anything other than increase the common manpower pool that can be thrown at a problem in the hopes that it will go away.
As for the PAT idea. That has the potential to be another train wreck in the making. We're going to send a bunch of troops to units to get OJT when we can't even employ them because they lack certain qualifications. Why does that strike me as the Branch or CFSCE shifting the problem out of their back yard into some one Else's to get rid of problem. I realise that CFSCE is short staffed, but this isn't going to fix the problem either. I can't see 1, 2, or 5 Sigs Sqn having the time or resources to train these troops. Like wise I can see the ASG Sigs Sqn picking up the slack because they can barely keep up with the demands on their time and skills as it is.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Aren't the ASG Sqns going to disappear?
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RumInt has it happening but I have yet to hear anything even quasi offical, and there didn't seem to be any hint of hit as the ISSO COnf / Training session that was held last week.
Watch and shoot I guess.
Watch and shoot I guess.
******As for the PAT idea. That has the potential to be another train wreck in the making. We're going to send a bunch of troops to units to get OJT when we can't even employ them because they lack certain qualifications. Why does that strike me as the Branch or CFSCE shifting the problem out of their back yard into some one Else's to get rid of problem. I realise that CFSCE is short staffed, but this isn't going to fix the problem either. I can't see 1, 2, or 5 Sigs Sqn having the time or resources to train these troops. Like wise I can see the ASG Sigs Sqn picking up the slack because they can barely keep up with the demands on their time and skills as it is.********
It's funny how earlier in this thread that posters were complaining that the training wait time is long and there are to many PATS. We have a plan that we are going to try and once again it's the .....it's not going to work..... When these PATS are posted to their units they always wont be there but hopefully loaded on their courses.
I have an example.....two students that didn't pass there QL3 training were send to Petawawa for 4 months OJT. When they came back they finished in the top third of their course.
These pers are posted to that unit. So after they do finish DP1 they are going back to that unit. I hope the units takes the time to develop and look after these troops because in the end it's their soldiers.
It's funny how earlier in this thread that posters were complaining that the training wait time is long and there are to many PATS. We have a plan that we are going to try and once again it's the .....it's not going to work..... When these PATS are posted to their units they always wont be there but hopefully loaded on their courses.
I have an example.....two students that didn't pass there QL3 training were send to Petawawa for 4 months OJT. When they came back they finished in the top third of their course.
These pers are posted to that unit. So after they do finish DP1 they are going back to that unit. I hope the units takes the time to develop and look after these troops because in the end it's their soldiers.
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I whole heartily agree that the units need to look after their people. My main concern is that it's not going to happen because we won't be able to train them effectively. The units don't have the time or people to dedicate to them the way that will be needed. IF current employment restrictions on NON-SQ qualified troops are not relaxed or altered then a big part of what's needed for OJT will be missed. For driver training, that might be different depending on how many driver instructors a given unit has and what the training schedule says.
If you are a linemen now, you may still get to do a Linemen QL5 depending on how long you been in and where you are in your career.
The common ACISS DP2 now is based on a Signals Detachment. However remember there is a DP2.1. So a LST that comes off the common DP2 (he/she already had Core training on DP1, then LST DP1.1) will then go on the LST DP2.1 which is all about linemen quals. The same for the ACISS Core, CST and IST, they have their own DP2.1.
On the Sig Op side there are 3 Sig QL5 course left to run. One in Jan and two in Feb that will match up with the last Sig Op QL3 legacy crses. The first two crses of ACISS DP1 start on 5 Jan 11. The first two ACISS DP2 courses will match up with these DP1s in Apr/May.
The common ACISS DP2 now is based on a Signals Detachment. However remember there is a DP2.1. So a LST that comes off the common DP2 (he/she already had Core training on DP1, then LST DP1.1) will then go on the LST DP2.1 which is all about linemen quals. The same for the ACISS Core, CST and IST, they have their own DP2.1.
On the Sig Op side there are 3 Sig QL5 course left to run. One in Jan and two in Feb that will match up with the last Sig Op QL3 legacy crses. The first two crses of ACISS DP1 start on 5 Jan 11. The first two ACISS DP2 courses will match up with these DP1s in Apr/May.
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C/S 0, you must be one of the cherished few in the CF that have an intimate knowledge of how ACISS is going to work. A HUGE problem with this amalgamation is the total lack of information coming down the chain to the troops, which is just turning people off the process. The career shop doesn't even know whats going on, and you would think they'd be the first people with the info.
Yeah, ACISS might work - in 10 years. Right now and for the next 5-10 years it will be a gong show and force a whole lot of extra work onto the shoulders of the MCpls and Sgts in the trades (who are already working hard because we're under PML).
Yeah, ACISS might work - in 10 years. Right now and for the next 5-10 years it will be a gong show and force a whole lot of extra work onto the shoulders of the MCpls and Sgts in the trades (who are already working hard because we're under PML).
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