Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[aesop081]

AF 291ers don't do an AF role,

Some do indeed IIRC :

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/v2/equip/cu170/specs-eng.asp

 

[PuckChaser]

Isn't the EWA from a hard blue trade? I don't want to get too far into details, as I'm sure most of the Heron mission specs beyond providing "ISR" are classified.

 

[Swingline1984]

I heard recently in a MES brief that the EW guys are thinking of coming online with this program.  Any 291'ers out there, what is your perspective?

 

[meni0n]

As in 291 becoming part of the ACISS trade?

 

[PuckChaser]

CFIOG would never let that happen. They're stuck in their own little world over there, and only a handful have actually moved into the 21st century conflict.

 

[REDinstaller]

Then maybe CFIOG should be the sole home for 291'ers, one common focal point and one common tasking agency.

 

[Swingline1984]

The MES managers mentioned that the rubber heads were showing interest in the amalgamation because the basic DP1 guys could potentially feed them with new blood as the overall trade requirement for ACISS is a lvl III clearance.  Apparently their biggest hurdle is just that, getting guys cleared.

 

[PuckChaser]

Apparently their biggest hurdle is just that, getting guys cleared.

Yep, 2 years is the average. If someone doesn't sign a CE after their BE4, the 291 trade gets about 1 year of trade-related employment out of a person.

 

[meni0n]

So where will the new ACISS guys be employable without a clearance though? Is the requirement to get on DP1 for ACISS to have lvl 3 or to have it in progress like we have it for the sig op trade right now?

Wouldn't it make it just easier to remove the SA requirement then join the amalgamation or have the same clearance requirements as the ACISS DP1?

 

[PuckChaser]

Are you talking about the SA requirement for the 291ers? Their job specifically requires Special Access, and are not employable without it.

 

[meni0n]

So I don't see how joining ACISS would solve any of the existing problems then.

 

[PuckChaser]

The only thing I can see is that they would be getting soldiers with field skills before putting them on their 291 courses. Its not a bonus to that trade, but to the CF in that they would be able to employ these people gainfully until their clearance came in.

 

[Swingline1984]

So I don't see how joining ACISS would solve any of the existing problems then.

All ACISS are expected (so the plan goes) to be employed in a brigade first qualified as a basic CP Op.  These folks then do their OJT/trade intros and by the time they have fullfilled all their basic checks in the box they will have their clearances.  This group is now ready to move into one of the three sub-occupations or progress into the parent occupation, basically a huge manpower pool.  I believe it is this pre-cleared pool that is attractive to them.

 

[meni0n]

Yes, but they also said that people are going to be evaluated on how they do all three positions before being assigned a sub occupation. How are they going to evaluate guys for the comm rsch when they don't have their clearance and can't touch any equipment or even be exposed to any aspect of the trade itself.

 

[chrisf]

How is that any different then taking comm-researchers recruits from off the street?

 

[meni0n]

As an ACISS you can get assigned a different sub occupation while off the street you're already in that occupation.

The recruiting pitch would be interesting, " Hey, want to be  comm rsch? Well you can join a ACISS trade, do a common course
and get evaluated in all sub occupations, but not in the comm rsch one because you won't have the clearance for that. And if you do a great job you might get assigned a totally different sub occupation. Feel lucky enough to roll the dice?"

 

[Swingline1984]

How are they going to evaluate guys for the comm rsch when they don't have their clearance and can't touch any equipment or even be exposed to any aspect of the trade itself.

I don't know, we never delved that deep into the issue.  How do they do it now?  The Managers did say that because everything is a sub-occupation it would be very easy to add and adjust for a new trade being tossed into the process as everything is internal to the core occupation and managed at that level.

How is that any different then taking comm-researchers recruits from off the street?

Say EW becomes part of the process.  Qty x 10 291'ers release and Qty x 10 291'ers are now required to meet PML.  Would it be easier to dip into a pool of basic qualified, level III cleared Signallers, or hire a guy off the street put him through the system and hope his clearance comes through?  Which is more timely?

**Just a reminder of what I originally stated, the MES Managers said EW was looking at it, not that it was a done deal or how they would do it.  We/I have started down the garden path on this one and I don't want to muddle fact and pure conjecture.

 

[Swingline1984]

...but not in the comm rsch one because you won't have the clearance for that.

Don't forget, the clearance requirement for all of ACISS is going to be Level III.

 

[meni0n]

Comm Rsch need SA to get qualified or touch any of the equipment. If you're wondering on the time line to get a SA added onto a level III. I got level III and I've been waiting for 6 months for it. 

 

[Swingline1984]

It's just an Indoc for SA isn't it?  I do believe the list is prioritized with operational/deploying personnel being the first in line.