Arizona Congresswoman shot

[kstart]

It's a valid term, and a very extreme, and dangerous stretch to blame Palin for this. I agree, and I am no fan of the Caribou Barbie  but man they were backpedalling faster than an all-pro NFL defensive back getting all that stuff of their websites eh? Guess they figured it was now bad optics (pardon the pun).

Lol, "Caribou Barbie".

I think psychosis of some sort has to be the primary factor, with homocidal tendencies, that were actualized. Though in this case, the targetting of a public official, it is hard to discern violent psychotic from terrorist.

Amazing recovering signs for the Congresswoman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html#22_chilling

While there is no evidence at this point to suggest that the shooting was politically motivated, Matt Yglesias points out that an anti-Giffords event was held in June with the billing: "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."Rep. Giffords was also on Sarah Palin's "target list."
As noted earlier, a gun was dropped at a Giffords event in 2009, and her office was vandalized in March.

She could have chosen other metaphors, seems unnecessarily brainless and it can be argued she is inciting violence, but I doubt that was the intention; someone probably though it was a "cutzy" self-marketing idea to 'target' her supporter-base.

 

[vonGarvin]

She could have chosen other metaphors, seems unnecessarily brainless and it can be argued she is inciting violence, but I doubt that was the intention; someone probably though it was a "cutzy" self-marketing idea to 'target' her supporter-base.

Now that is indeed a stretch.
Other examples of the same metaphor:
One
Two
Three
And this one shows that the democrats not only used the same metaphor, but also included the line "behind enemy lines"
Four

 

[vonGarvin]

Fair is fair, I suppose.


Anyway, this is going off on a tangent.  All I can say is this, I am amazed at the bravery of the people there who disarmed the shooter, especially the woman (as yet, unnamed) who was also apparently hit by some of this guy's fire.

 

[desert_rat]

I am amazed at the bravery of the people there who disarmed the shooter, especially the woman (as yet, unnamed) who was also apparently hit by some of this guy's fire.

Yeah, that would be I'm sure a challenge enough for trained pers, let alone (what I assume to be) an "average citizen"

from CBS News:

"Loughner is charged with one count of attempted assassination of member of Congress, two counts of killing an employee of the federal government and two counts of attempting to killing a federal employee. "
and...

"Investigators said they seized evidence suggesting Loughner planned ahead.

Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at the suspect's home and seized an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be the man's signature.

"These are preliminary charges and as the investigation goes on there will be additional charges that will be filed," Mueller said. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/09/national/main7228149.shtml

 

[vonGarvin]

"Investigators said they seized evidence suggesting Loughner planned ahead.

Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at the suspect's home and seized an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be the man's signature.

I know that this is a serious event, etc, however, reading the above made me laugh.  "Gee, you think?"


Is it just me or is that just a case of the media stating the bloody obvious.  I mean, even without messages saying "I planned ahead", I would offer that going to a political speech with a bunch of ammo and a rifle and whatever else he had, would suggest a bit of preparation.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

I know that this is a serious event, etc, however, reading the above made me laugh.  "Gee, you think?"


Is it just me or is that just a case of the media stating the bloody obvious.  I mean, even without messages saying "I planned ahead", I would offer that going to a political speech with a bunch of ammo and a rifle and whatever else he had, would suggest a bit of preparation.

They probably could have worded it better but I think they mean he planned ahead to attack/kill her and her supporters specifically because of what she did and what she stands for (in his eyes), as apposed to those school shooting where the killer has no target in mind.

 

[vonGarvin]

They probably could have worded it better but I think they mean he planned ahead to attack/kill her and her supporters specifically because of what she did and what she stands for (in his eyes), as apposed to those school shooting where the killer has no target in mind.

I think the wording was poor.  I am not reading anything into this.  Just that he planned it.  The "why" is undetermined.

 

[57Chevy]

Cannon says Arizona shooting 'undermines the safety of us all'

OTTAWA — In response to the shooting of a U.S. congresswoman that's left her fighting for her life, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said Sunday that attacks against elected officials "undermine the safety of us all."

"Regardless of where they occur, attacks against democratically elected officials affect and undermine the safety of us all," he said in a statement.

Gabrielle Giffords, a Democratic congresswoman from Arizona, was shot in the head by an assailant who also opened fire with a handgun on a crowd gathered at a Tucson supermarket for a town-hall-style meeting Saturday.

Eighteen people were shot, and six were killed, including John Roll, a U.S. federal judge, and a nine-year-old girl named Christina Taylor Green. Giffords remains in hospital recovering from emergency surgery.

Cannon offered condolences to the victims Sunday.

"On behalf of the government and all Canadians, I offer my condolences to the family and friends of federal Judge John Roll and the other innocent victims of this senseless act of violence," he said. "In particular, I offer sympathy to the family of the young girl among the victims, whose entire life was ahead of her.

"I would also like to wish a quick recovery to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and to all others who were injured.

"Canada stands with the people of the United States, our valued friend and neighbour, in this time of grief," he said.

article link
                              (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[muskrat89]

The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it centered in Arizona.

Granted, it was an emotional day but the good Sheriff should stick to presenting the facts and leave the editorializing to someone else. I'm in the camp that says this guy was a whackjob, neither left nor right - just plain nutso. That being said, if one wants to get in the muck, some indications describe him as "left-wing" - http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php  not right-wing.

Dupnik also stated that the Judge was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the Feds say differently: http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0111/Judges_final_actions_key_to_federal_charge_for_his_murder.html

The criminal complaint federal prosecutors filed Sunday against the alleged shooter, Jared Loughner, goes to some lengths to demonstrate that Roll didn't show up at the Giffords event just to say hello to the congresswoman, or on some whim after attending mass, as reports Saturday suggested. That storyline was fueled by Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who said "because [Roll] knows Gabrielle very well, [he] came around the corner to say hi. Unfortunately he was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

By contrast, FBI agent Tony Taylor argues that Roll was at the event to talk to Giffords about ongoing problems related to a surge in the federal judicial caseload in Arizona--a problem which the judge has attributed to a boost in the number of federal agents sent to the area to address immigration and border-related crime.

 

[a_majoor]

Very sad day in Arizona.

The suggestions that a deranged person is getting suggestions from the speeches and wordings of political figures may have some validity, but it is interesting that no one spoke about this when books and movies were being made about (fictional) assassinations of President George W Bush (or some Liberal flunky saying "Kill him. Kill him dead" about Prime Minister Harper).

So yes, shut down the inflammatory rhetoric, and condemn it wherever it appears.

Thoughts and prayers for the victims.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

That being said, if one wants to get in the muck, some indications describe him as "left-wing"

The congresswoman may have been a democrat but her positions would be described as right wing. Yes, he is very left wing, he listed his favorite books on his youtube page which included The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. Oddly enough all the other books listed are childhood classics and standard high school novels.

 

[muskrat89]

The congresswoman may have been a democrat but her positions would be described as right wing

I'm pretty familiar with her. I live here.

 

[brihard]

The congresswoman may have been a democrat but her positions would be described as right wing. Yes, he is very left wing, he listed his favorite books on his youtube page which included The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. Oddly enough all the other books listed are childhood classics and standard high school novels.

'Mein Kampf' isn't exactly something considered to be 'left wing'. Nor Ayn Rand.

With that said, I think it's inherently dishonest to try to present him as either 'right wing' or 'left wing'. I think his headspace and timing was way too out of whack for any such labels to be applicable.

Nor can the congresswoman be described as 'right wing'. She's a 'blue dog democrat', generally considered fairly centrist- meaning she gets shat on by both sides on a fairly regular basis. She is perhaps 'right' amongst the democratic caucus, but that sits her pretty much in the middle.

It annoys me that we as a society are always so damned insistent on trying to pidgeonhole people along a single axis political spectrum, as if such a description can have much real value.

 

[armyvern]

I'm pretty familiar with her. I live here.

And, I thought immediately of you when I first saw this story on this site last evening. My condolances to your state and to all the families affected by this. I hope that your injured fully and speedily recover. What a completely tragic situation for anyone to endure - regardless of political stripe.

 

[muskrat89]

Thnaks Vern. That means a lot.

 

[observor 69]

The New York Times


January 9, 2011
Bloodshed and Invective in Arizona
She read the First Amendment on the House floor — including the guarantee of “the right of the people peaceably to assemble” — and then flew home to Arizona to put those words into practice. But when Gabrielle Giffords tried to meet with her constituents in a Tucson parking lot on Saturday, she came face to face with an environment wholly at odds with that constitutional ideal, and she nearly paid for it with her life.

Jared Loughner, the man accused of shooting Ms. Giffords, killing a federal judge and five other people, and wounding 13 others, appears to be mentally ill. His paranoid Internet ravings about government mind control place him well beyond usual ideological categories.

But he is very much a part of a widespread squall of fear, anger and intolerance that has produced violent threats against scores of politicians and infected the political mainstream with violent imagery. With easy and legal access to semiautomatic weapons like the one used in the parking lot, those already teetering on the edge of sanity can turn a threat into a nightmare.

Last spring, Capitol security officials said threats against members of Congress had tripled over the previous year, almost all from opponents of health care reform. An effigy of Representative Frank Kratovil Jr., a Maryland Democrat, was hung from a gallows outside his district office. Ms. Giffords’s district office door was smashed after the health vote, possibly by a bullet.

The federal judge who was killed, John Roll, had received hundreds of menacing phone calls and death threats, especially after he allowed a case to proceed against a rancher accused of assaulting 16 Mexicans as they tried to cross his land. This rage, stirred by talk-radio hosts, required marshals to give the judge and his family 24-hour protection for a month. Around the nation, threats to federal judges have soared for a decade.

It is facile and mistaken to attribute this particular madman’s act directly to Republicans or Tea Party members. But it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats. They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people.

That whirlwind has touched down most forcefully in Arizona, which Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described after the shooting as the capital of “the anger, the hatred and the bigotry that goes on in this country.” Anti-immigrant sentiment in the state, firmly opposed by Ms. Giffords, has reached the point where Latino studies programs that advocate ethnic solidarity have actually been made illegal.

Its gun laws are among the most lenient, allowing even a disturbed man like Mr. Loughner to buy a pistol and carry it concealed without a special permit. That was before the Tucson rampage. Now, having seen first hand the horror of political violence, Arizona should lead the nation in quieting the voices of intolerance, demanding an end to the temptations of bloodshed, and imposing sensible controls on its instruments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

 

[Rifleman62]

Thucydides:

The suggestions that a deranged person is getting suggestions from the speeches and wordings of political figures may have some validity, but it is interesting that no one spoke about this when books and movies were being made about (fictional) assassinations of President George W Bush.

And, that is the very least of it.

Since not all of you subscribe to FOX news, you may have missed this (Megyn Kelly is a very smart lady with a couple degrees including a law degree. The interview is several minutes long):

Megyn Kelly Takes On Sheriff Dupnik Over His “Political Spin” On Shooting

On Fox News, Megyn Kelly interviewed the man in charge of the Arizona shooting investigation, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. Kelly introduced the interview saying, “it is always a difficult task to try to assign reason to an irrational act, but that is one of the things that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik is trying to do.”

From there, Kelly was persistent, yet extremely deferential as she expressed the doubts of many who are wondering why the Sheriff is so publicly offering his speculative opinion that “vitriolic rhetoric” helped lead to the tragedy. Although the sheriff had no specific evidence of such rhetoric yet, he claimed there is “no doubt in my mind that when a number of people night and day try to inflame the public, that there’s going to be some consequences from doing that and I think it’s irresponsible to do that.”

When he also warned that “free speech is free speech but it’s not without consequences,” Kelly questioned whether it was appropriate for a sheriff to be injecting their political spin? The sheriff answered that ultimately it’s up to the viewers to decide.

Watch the clip from Fox News: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kelly-takes-on-az-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-over-his-political-spin-on-shooting/

 

[Redeye]

I was in The Middle Of Nowhere, New Hampshire when this happened and didn't learn of it until I got back across the border and had service on my iPhone and could read the news, but was rather shocked (well, honestly, not really) how quickly it seems that the right (not the media, actually, they did a very good job on making clear not to try to attribute the events to "the left" or "the right") but bloggers etc tried to paint the guy as a "loony liberal", something that is laughable given what little evidence there is about the guy's leanings, other than the clear fact that he is, as Mortar Guy once put it about some Officer Cadet, "two fingers left of the right the f*** out of 'er".  The stuff I read suggested they assumed that was what their much-villified "mainstream media" would claim.

What this does illustrate is the potential harm that can come from some of the extremely disturbing violent rhetoric that seems to be increasing cropping up in American politics, and while it's mainly coming from one particular end of the spectrum, far better to simply have a non-partisan discussion of it, because the potential for harm is certainly there, whether this particular incident is an illustration or not.

Interesting take on how Palin should have reacted - given that much criticism has been levelled at her - by David Frum is here: http://bit.ly/gY2iQT - worth a read.

 

[vonGarvin]

What this does illustrate is the potential harm that can come from some of the extremely disturbing violent rhetoric that seems to be increasing cropping up in American politics, and while it's mainly coming from one particular end of the spectrum, far better to simply have a non-partisan discussion of it, because the potential for harm is certainly there, whether this particular incident is an illustration or not.

Interesting take on how Palin should have reacted - given that much criticism has been levelled at her - by David Frum is here: http://bit.ly/gY2iQT - worth a read.

I call 100% bullshit on the above.  As pointed out earlier, neither left, right, middle, top or bottom have a monopoly.  Right now the "right" may be in focus, but that is probably because a Democrat sits in the White House.  When a Republican was there, the slings and arrows came from the left.

This man was deranged, and his actions probably had as much to do with Moon phases as it did with the use of the metaphor of "targetting" in the previous elections.

 

[Redeye]

I don't recall, and would welcome an example of slings and arrows of that sort of severity coming from left-leaning media figures, political candidates, or prominent figures in leadership/organizational roles of left-leaning parties or organizations/PACs in the USA during the Bush administration.  I don't think I ever heard a Democrat discussing "Second Amendment Remedies" for dissatisfaction with the Bush Admin. I can't recall a prominent figure on the left asserting that "when ballots fail, bullets work".  I don't remember overt references to guns or encouragement to display them at protests from the left either.  I do remember some loons burning effigies of Bush and things like that - but they were on the fringes of movements, not the leaders of them, and I remember no condoning of that sort of behaviour because it's frankly not beneficial to discourse nor acceptable in civil society.

Yes, Loughner was a loon, but it is rather telling that Palin, for example, is trying to erase the record of the "targetting" and numerous statements/tweets related to it.  It's interesting that now one of SarahPAC's staffers has actually gone on record trying to claim it had something to day with surveyor's transits.  Really?  How do I reload my theodolite, again?  Of course, there are screencaps and caches of this stuff and thus it's not going to work, which is why I thought Frum's posting was apt and a good example of what she probably SHOULD have done.  It's also funny that one Tea Party organization sent out an email telling its folks to refer to him as a liberal loon (which is laughable, since what little we do know about him doesn't support that label at all!).

So, was Loughner driven to his acts by any particular rhetoric or figure?  I don't know yet.  No one does..  I do know he had some really, really bizarre ideas, and that it seems he was obviously mentally ill.  Regardless of the causes of this event, however, it i remains a good prompt to have a frank discussion of the potential implications of such rhetoric.

I call 100% bullshit on the above.  As pointed out earlier, neither left, right, middle, top or bottom have a monopoly.  Right now the "right" may be in focus, but that is probably because a Democrat sits in the White House.  When a Republican was there, the slings and arrows came from the left.

This man was deranged, and his actions probably had as much to do with Moon phases as it did with the use of the metaphor of "targetting" in the previous elections.