Are We Dying?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

With Ms. Janes permission I stole this post from another thread to check the pulse of those out there.......is she correct in her assumption that the Canadian version [ say mine from 15 years ago]of the Artilleryman is doomed?

Hi Bojangles, I'm currently a female in the Artillery (reg force) and being 5 foot f*&kall and 120 pounds myself at joining, it was not easy as 155mm rounds weigh 98 pounds but hey i grunted my way through it, no doubt you can do it but it won't be easy, as for joining the artillery i would think twice, it's a dying trade, most people here have left or have an OT in (including myself) it's very hard to get ahead here, there are much better trades out there, please look around some more, I'm actually thinking of OTing to electrical distribution technician    please feel free to ask me anything about the arty trade.

JANE



Thoughts......
EDIT: to highlight the discussion part.
                       

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I was just thinking about that too after reading it.... Is there a need for large artillery batteries on the modern battlefield? Or more specifically, for the CF ? Or would more funding instead go towards places like the infantry and armored ? You can't exactly bomb the crap out of Kabul to find a couple of warlords or do it in Baghdad to find Al Zarqawi....

I doubt that the artillery would dissolve anytime soon, because with so many other conventional armies still around theres no need to start disbanding parts of ours.I think maybe the artillery's numbers are down because of lack of information/interest towards recruiters? I have no idea really. 

 

[Big Foot]

First off, she sounds to be very tough, throwing around shells that weigh nearly as much as her. Secondly, from what I hear, artillery isn't dying, it's diversifying. With the UAVs, and I believe mortars under artillery control, i think the trade still has a good future.

 

[GIJANE]

The way i see it it's diversifying cause it's dying, there is really not much need for heavy artillery, and i don't throw around arty shells (too hard on my back )



Jane

 

[Infanteer]

Is Artillery dying?  No.  I like the term evolving.

I read a good article on the recent maturation of the Canadian professional with the introduction in the last decade or so of new doctrine.  The author stated that since the end of WWII, we were immature with regards to any notion of the operational art.  Our sole raison d'ete as an Army was to fight a tactical close battle on the plains of Germany.  Now, the close battle Army had adopted a doctrine which in an operational setting sees the close battle as only one part of the battlefield - the enemies deep and rear areas demand attention for operational success as well.

If we are going to continue this maturation, then the Artillery will continue to evolve into one of the main arms responsible for engaging the enemy in his deep and rear areas.  The introduction of the UAV is a perfect example - hopefully some sort of MLRS will follow (ya right....).

However, I believe evolution takes another form as well.  You will no longer see entire divisional Artillery pounding cities with 5 hour barrages - unless you're a Russian outside of Grozney.  In the information age Army, the Artillery, just like the other branches of the Combat Arms, will diffuse out and rely more on the "sabers cut" then the "sledgehammers smash" (thanks Kirkhill).

Anyways, just some thoughts,
Infanteer

 

[Bomber]

Most of the armoured regiments are losing their tanks and we are wondering which of the Combat Arms is dying?  We will have one of the most valuable positions in the future, watching things from a far, working with the other armies, delivering fire from guns, mortars, planes and anything else authorized.  We still light the way, for the infantry to see at night, and when NVG's start getting sold at Walmart, we can use illum to burn the enemies retinas.  There are a ton of people with OT's in right now, but that happens everywhere, all the time.  And if you look at it, most of the OT's are leaving the combat arms entirely, what was Jane going for, electrical distribution technician, some go fire fighting, some go int.  It doesn't seem like anything new.  As the LAV FOO vehicle gets used more and more, and the "digitised army" comes to be, I think the guns, UAV's, and anything else we get are going to become one of the most important assets to any commander.  Experienced people looking at an enemy that can't see them, making solid judgements on the situation that are reinforced with by our equipment and training, and able to reach out and touch someone in an almost pinpoint manner.  I think in transforming, we are going to be looking pretty good when it is all said and done.

 

[MrGnr27]

The Army Commander has a vision. His staff are currently imlementing it. In future conflicts, we will play a humble part in a ( US led ) coalition. Our contributuion will be a (wheeled) mech inf task force. We will have a few of them lined up to go into the breech.

There are three close support batteries in on this. That does not mean to say that 1 and 2 RCHA, and 5 RALC will disappear. It means that these batteries will be in various stages of readiness for contingency deployment of the Task Force.

Yes, the time of the M 109 is gone. We do not plan on training to defend the Fulda Gap any longer. Light, air transportable forces are the way to go. The Commander knows this - hence the LAV, its' variants, and the Mobile Gun System.

The Gunners have a part in this: either as part of ISTAR ( FOOs, target acquisition w/ UAV, radar, etc ), or with integral light indirect fire support elements ( light guns, mortars, or both ).

Historically, " been there - done that ". 2 RCHA and, years ago, the Airborne Regiment, had a Bty which fielded, and operated, guns and mortars simultaneously. When the local commander got into it, he could count on integral indirect fire support. That has not changed. Rest assured that The Guns will continue to play an active role in the field force. Times, they are a changin'. Resistance is futile. But we will survive.

Ubique 

 

[muskrat89]

Hey Sir - Welcome to the Boards

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

MrGnr27,
I knew you couldn't lurk forever, ;D.......welcome to army.ca,my friend.

Remember if your ever Ottawa way to give me a call cause I believe I owe you several beer for helping to get me in such great shape because of all those times you made me run up and down Zipperhead hill with the towing eye above my head. :-*
...and of course that England thing....... :-X

 

[Island Ryhno]

I've been in contact with the recruiting office for a while now, trying to figure my trade etc. The word I get from them is that all the focus is on artillery recruiting right now. Now I'm no expert, but if most of the seasoned soldiers are ot'ing etc. Then wouldn't there be plenty of opportunity for the new recruits. I mean take out large chunks of cpl's, mcpls etc and all those privates, junior cpls have to go somewhere right? Another thing, what I seem to be noticing about most of the forums and the new doctrine of defence (and this is just an outsiders opion) is this; it seems to me that basically all the combat arms are going to be infantry with a specialist job. I mean, armoured without tanks and arty without guns are infantry soldiers...right. Maybe I'm just nuts, could you folks help untwist my brain.

Ryhno  :threat:

 

[RCA]

As with all parts of the Army, we need to find or niche role.  My feeling this runs in the areas of Fire Support Control and Target Acquisition.

The days of Div Arty and such are gone. However, our role as the third leg of the Combat Arms Team must remain. Suppression of the enemy.

Therefore we will not die, but evolve into a different animal ( as ids the rest of the army).

 

[Long in the tooth]

This transformation is also going on in the USA.  Just announced was the cancellation of the Crusader, a truly impressive replacement to the M901A3.  Also cancelled was the replacement to the P3 Orion.  After 4 years of incredible increases in defence funding the beancounters seem to be back in charge in washington.

 

[Bomber]

The armoured will still ride in vehicles designed to destroy the enemies armour, their recce will still watch for the enemy.  The artillery will still fire its guns to suppress and destroy the enemy.  We aren't evolving into some freaky infantry specialist army.

 

[MrGnr27]

The only thing we are doing is taking advantage of technology, ie: 25mm cannon with a few types of ammo, fast vehicles ( from the same vehicle family ), and digitization. Throw in ISTAR and there you have it - a multi-role combat force for medium intensity conflict.

The infantry will still seize and hold the ground. Situational awareness will give them them the edge.

" Freaky infantry specialist army "....no, not quite. But rest assured that we are evolving....and fast !

Example:
Twenty years ago, we had a prismatic compass, a Target Grid Template ( aka "whiz wheel "), a protractor with a knotted string attached, and a very sharp pencil. Add a pair of binos and you had yourself one lethal Forward Observer. The only limitations were the weather.

By comparison, with the advent of the new FOO vehicle,and its' STA devices, the FOO Party has incredibly fast target acquisiton abilities - all day/night in all weather. However, the FOO party must constantly work at its' collective TTPs to avoid skill fade. Today it is one real techniclal arena.

My point then: as the Combat Arms get the technical kit, the soldier/operators will be most technical indeed !

Ubique

 

[Island Ryhno]

Agreed, I believe that you are going to be seeing a much smarter army. My point was that we seem to moving away from the WWII training type army to something more modern. It looks like we a becoming a quick reaction army, as opposed to a slog it out, pound them with artillery type army. Again I'm not in the forces, I'm just surmising, I like getting inside opinions. I just don't see the practical application of the older type arty, I mean the americans didn't pound Baghdad with artillery and walk with a flag, they couldn't. This is a different world we live in, and our military seems to set up for peacekeeping only. Does anyone know when the last artillery attack was done by Canadians in a theather of operations?

 

[muskrat89]

Does anyone know when the last artillery attack was done by Canadians in a theather of operations?

Umm.. last year, I think

 

[George Wallace]

Was that an actual attack or just Range practice?

GW

 

[Island Ryhno]

Sorry, I should have clarified, I meant in an actual attack, a show of agression on an enemy force!

 

[Meridian]

I wonder.. from a practical/political point of view... is the Arty dying?

I mean, I recognize if we want a full out combat capable force, we need arty, mortars, etc...  But how often are we deploying arty pers to far off lands in recent missions? (I dont know, but general perception I would presume would be not much, since we dont want to increase hostilities).

The general feelign I got from people back from Bosnia was that arty there was a token force.. just to say that we use our arty, not that they would ever be called upon to fire, esp in the later rotos.


Do we have the political wherewhitall to ever really use our heavy weapons, and perhaps is this why we are moving to UAVs, tankless armoured regiments, etc?

 

[Island Ryhno]

Exactly, I'm wondering whether or not when arty folks go on tours do they use artillery. If you go on peacekeeping missions and you don't do arty stuff, but you patrol in a G wagon or what not, isn't that an infantry role. Same thing for the armoured folks, they go overseas  and patrol in lavs, isn't this the same thing that the infantry does?