Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[chrisf]

Is it realistic to suggest that perhaps all civilian vessels over a certain size that intend to operate in ice covered Canadian waters should be required to have a large Helicopter Landing Pad - both for their own safety and also to increase the number of "lily pads" available to aircrew and the number or "refuges" available to distressed survivors or disasters.....  But I digress.... A lot.

Don't forget, a helicopter landing pad on it's own isn't that useful. You'd need to add refueling equipment, fuel tanks for the refueling equipment, and training for the flight deck crew.

http://woodwards.nf.ca/

Woodwards does a fair bit of shipping in the Arctic as well.

 

[Kirkhill]

Don't forget, a helicopter landing pad on it's own isn't that useful. You'd need to add refueling equipment, fuel tanks for the refueling equipment, and training for the flight deck crew.

........

Understood but I would think that even a platform without fuel would increase the options for a SAR team.

For example - Lots of survivors and fuel running low - the closer the nearest refuge the shorter the distance the helicopter has to lift the survivors increasing the number of survivors that can be transported to safety on each lift and increasing the likelihood of being able to make multiple lifts.

Equally the helicopter itself could put down on the ship and either ride the ship back to port or ..... possibly ..... have fuel flown out to her.  I think. 

Amateur playing silly bugger again. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I get that a lot actually.  You would think I might have learned by now.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic.  I really do appreciate having my misperceptions and outright errors fixed.

Thanks again.

Maybe a at the end of your post might help reduce the number of people wondering if you are being sarcastic? Just a suggestion.

 

[chrisf]

Perhaps the AOPS electronics suite should include a sarcasm detector?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggXmKPMaHMo

 

[Kirkhill]

Maybe a at the end of your post might help reduce the number of people wondering if you are being sarcastic? Just a suggestion.

Thanks for the heads up.

Unfortunately it also happens in person. ;D

 

[Old Sweat]

To come to Kirkhill's defence, he comes up with some original thinking. A lot of it fails the "say what" test, but there also are some ideas that merit examination. A lot of those also crash and burn, but a number make it through. He and I have discussed a number of issues by pm and I find him sincere when he said he erred or thanked me for an explanation.

Beside, he is a Scot, like I are by ancestry, and we both feel in our oatmeal slurping bones that happy faces are the works of the Devil, or the English. Still, if it will help, he should go for it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Cowley is capable of embarking a helicopter, as are the 1100 class ice breakers, some others, and all the larger ships (Larsen, Radisson, Louis, etc, with the exception of the Fox, no hanger facilities), but does not regularly operate with one. It's only embarked as required by mission.

With regards to the ice breakers/arctic ops, the helicopters typically fill the ice recce/resupply role.

Not to mention carting crews around to maintain nav aids and such

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Colin: Perhaps you can enlighten us a bit more on Coastguard helicopters.

My understanding is that they are civilian helicopters that are restricted to visual flight rules (thus, they do not fly in fog, rain or at night), that they carry no sensors (no surface search radars, FLIR's, light amplification systems for night or TAC displays with links to integrate with their mother ship) and that the fact that they have no deck landing system restricts their use to some pretty low sea states.

Is my understanding correct?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The helicopters are owned by Transport Canada who leases/rents them and their crews to CCG. They were equipped (90's) with GPS and DF equipment to find the ship. The S61 based in Prince Rupert was equipped with a hoist, and to my knowledge has been used a couple of times, but no one was properly trained on them and may still be a running issue. I suspect most TC helicopters are VFR only, but most TC aircraft (like their King airs) are IFR equipped. I will wander down to civ aviation and ask as to current practices if they know.
Some of the east coast helicopters I think have cameras and FLIRs. We had FLIR on the SRN 6 hovercraft but found it rather useless in the fog.

there is no deck drawdown for the helo so limited sea state are a must, we have used then in certain circumstances in seas, but I can't recall accurate sea states, normally we are close to the coast so worst case the helo flies to shore to await weather or for the ship to find sheltered water. As it got rougher I recall strapping down a cargo net on the flight deck to provide more traction to the skids. Cargo was normally long lined off the well deck, personal was loaded on the flight deck.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Thank you - I look forward to the extra info when available as this will greatly enhanced our ongoing discussion on type to embark on AOPS.

BTW, and this may be a personal view, to me Transport Canada aircrew are civilians.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

that's ok, I consider all police officer citizens also..... ;D

 

[MightyIndustry]

How long does it take a CF-18 with armaments to fly up to the Northwest Passage?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Back on topic please.

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A note the 1100 uses a retractable hanger. Not sure if it would fit a 412.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6xm5Lx47Qgc/Tf6OSCh84xI/AAAAAAAAEfU/iPxqp9Uf9FE/s1600/IMG_3952%2BEC%2Band%2BSWA.jpg

 

[RC]

A note the 1100 uses a retractable hanger. Not sure if it would fit a 412.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6xm5Lx47Qgc/Tf6OSCh84xI/AAAAAAAAEfU/iPxqp9Uf9FE/s1600/IMG_3952%2BEC%2Band%2BSWA.jpg

Navy wasn't interested in that option due to maintenance issues both of the hangar and in the hangar.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I wonder if there has been any discussion in using the AOPS as a common hull for other ship types. For example could it be used to design a small LPD, AOR or support vessel? Just musing....

 

[jollyjacktar]

I wonder if there has been any discussion in using the AOPS as a common hull for other ship types. For example could it be used to design a small LPD, AOR or support vessel? Just musing....

I suspect it might be too small for AOR use.  The question as posed is interesting though.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Small LPD for use in Northern Waters might be really interesting.

A way to get our feet wet while operating domestically?  ;D

Perhaps a little more emphasis on Ship to Shore and the LCVPs?  A Domestic Mothership for Danish type SAR/LCPs - Swedish CBH-90s?

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Small LPD for use in Northern Waters might be really interesting.

A way to get our feet wet while operating domestically?  ;D

Perhaps a little more emphasis on Ship to Shore and the LCVPs?  A Domestic Mothership for Danish type SAR/LCPs - Swedish CBH-90s?

Honestly, I think we could get alot done with a couple of converted car ferries, and a few landing craft/ LVTP type amphibious vehicles (or BV 206s). You don't need a fully bombed up warship to 'show the flag' in peacetime in your own backyard IMHO.

 

[Kirkhill]

Honestly, I think we could get alot done with a couple of converted car ferries, and a few landing craft/ LVTP type amphibious vehicles (or BV 206s). You don't need a fully bombed up warship to 'show the flag' in peacetime in your own backyard IMHO.

Fair enough, but if we're building the blighters in any event why not ensure you can sway out some decent sized boats?  And, if I understand correctly, these AOPS things don't really qualify as fully bombed up warships.