Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[suffolkowner]

Again, my ignorance, besides the definition above, isn't AOPS also armed with the BAE 25mm Mk 38 machine gun system that features a highly accurate gun targeting and surveillance system, as well as the M242 Cannon. Doesn't this make it a warship although it isn't built to conventional navy milspecs? Doesn't this make it a warship? If it isn't then shouldn't the Canadian Coast Guard be responsible for all the tasks assigned to AOPS class of ships and crew them?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass.

its funny as a layperson I would think the AOR/MCDV/AOPS would be combatants but not warships as I imagine warships as being capable of doing serious damage

 

[Kirkhill]

1 International law defines a warship as a ship belonging to the armed forces of a nation bearing the external markings distinguishing the character and nationality of such ships, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of that nation, whose name appears in the appropriate service list of officers, and is manned by a crew that is under regular armed forces discipline.

Warships

"Warships" published on by Oxford University Press.

opil.ouplaw.com

Nothing said there about it being armed.

Presumably, if a nation wishes to enter into a battlespace without weapons that is their lookout.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Should they be on patrol, and possibly not be in the area needed, or secured and ready to respond?

Saves fuels, wear and tear on the engines. Also small ships and being tied up/anchored means crew can go ashore (normally within 15 min of the ship on SAR standby) which helps morale. Unless there is a set of specific tasks, the Captain will move around the SAR zone based on their judgement and what the Regional Ops centre wants.

 

[Kirkhill]

I'd like to point out that the Coast Guard does have some ships assigned to do constabulary work: Some of the mid-shore patrol vessels are assigned to carry RCMP officers on law enforcement taskings and as a result, carry two different government ID plates. The Coast Guard one and the RCMP one.

View attachment 81402

Length (m): 42.8
Breadth (m): 7
Draft (m): 2.8
Freeboard (m): 1.7
Gross Tonnage (t): 253
Net Tonnage (t): 75
Cruising Range (nm): 2000
Endurance (d): 14
Cruising Speed (kts): 14
Maximum Speed (kts): 25
Fresh Water (m³): 6.5
Fuel Capacity (m³): 34
Fuel Consumption (m³/d): 9.6

Complement: 9
Officers: 5
Crew: 4
Berths Available: 14
Crewing Regime: Layday

Vessel - CCG Fleet

CCG Fleet

inter-j01.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Name	Hero class
Builders	Irving Shipbuilding
Operators	Canadian Coast Guard
Built	2011–2014
In service	2012–present
In commission	2012–2014
Planned	9
Active	9

Hero-class patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Colin Parkinson]

R Class 2.0 Frankly not sure why they went with them. Ok for the inside waters, but must be a bitch in any heavy sea and will not be able to launch a rescue boat in them.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes. I am surprised the Coast Guard hasn't divested itself of those by transffering them to the naval reserve yet.

 

[DBNSG]

R Class 2.0 Frankly not sure why they went with them. Ok for the inside waters, but must be a bitch in any heavy sea and will not be able to launch a rescue boat in them.

I have read that the Coast Guard was supposed to have a fleet of 12 boats but Irving , well Irvinged and delivered 9. I agree about the rough seas as the Boats don't seem to sail much out of Halifax. Maybe we should copy the Webbers of the USCG at 47 meters and 8 Wide. Send the smaller present fleet to the inland Naval reserves and build 12 Webbers.Better seakeeping as the Yanks have done very long patrols with theirs

 

[Rainbow1910]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1734302087788552557

Video of the floating out of the future HMCS Frédérick Rolette a few days ago.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I have heard elsewhere on the internet that the Cyclone is unable to fit within the hanger of the AOPS, either due to length or width. I've found some back and forth about that here with the search function but it does not seem like there was ever a consensus.

From what I have seen and found, the AOPS was specifically designed to fit a Cyclone within its hanger with drawings I have seen (albeit older public ones from before construction circa 2012), show it should be able to fit the Cyclone with a folded tail. I have not seen any photos of a Cyclone in the hanger as there is none from DeWolf's SHOL trials back in 2021 publicly available.

Is there any open source info to confirm or deny this?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have heard elsewhere on the internet that the Cyclone is unable to fit within the hanger of the AOPS, either due to length or width. I've found some back and forth about that here with the search function but it does not seem like there was ever a consensus.

From what I have seen and found, the AOPS was specifically designed to fit a Cyclone within its hanger with drawings I have seen (albeit older public ones from before construction circa 2012), show it should be able to fit the Cyclone with a folded tail. I have not seen any photos of a Cyclone in the hanger as there is none from DeWolf's SHOL trials back in 2021 publicly available.

Is there any open source info to confirm or deny this?

Somebody goofed on measuring?

 

[DBNSG]

I have heard elsewhere on the internet that the Cyclone is unable to fit within the hanger of the AOPS, either due to length or width. I've found some back and forth about that here with the search function but it does not seem like there was ever a consensus.

From what I have seen and found, the AOPS was specifically designed to fit a Cyclone within its hanger with drawings I have seen (albeit older public ones from before construction circa 2012), show it should be able to fit the Cyclone with a folded tail. I have not seen any photos of a Cyclone in the hanger as there is none from DeWolf's SHOL trials back in 2021 publicly available.

Is there any open source info to confirm or deny this?

'That's why we should acquire the 27 UH-1Y Yankees sitting in the desert. Looks like a grey Griffon, Marinized for at Sea operations, Folding rotors, room for 8 Arctic equipped troops and far more powerful for remote lifting operations. Fits the Hanger of an AOPS.

 

[Kirkhill]

'That's why we should acquire the 27 UH-1Y Yankees sitting in the desert. Looks like a grey Griffon, Marinized for at Sea operations, Folding rotors, room for 8 Arctic equipped troops and far more powerful for remote lifting operations. Fits the Hanger of an AOPS.

And leave room for a few V-Bats.

 

[KevinB]

'That's why we should acquire the 27 UH-1Y Yankees sitting in the desert. Looks like a grey Griffon, Marinized for at Sea operations, Folding rotors, room for 8 Arctic equipped troops and far more powerful for remote lifting operations. Fits the Hanger of an AOPS.

HH-60's - I'll leave it to the helo pilots to explain why wheels are better than skids for helo's on ships...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

HH-60's - I'll leave it to the helo pilots to explain why wheels are better than skids for helo's on ships...

If you don't plan rough weather ops, then skids work fine and that is what all the CCG helo's use. Better also for "perching" onto a mountainside.

 

[Good2Golf]

HH-60's - I'll leave it to the helo pilots to explain why wheels are better than skids for helo's on ships...

Green helo guy having done wheels and skids….skids ain’t pretty!

 

[Navy_Pete]

I have heard elsewhere on the internet that the Cyclone is unable to fit within the hanger of the AOPS, either due to length or width. I've found some back and forth about that here with the search function but it does not seem like there was ever a consensus.

From what I have seen and found, the AOPS was specifically designed to fit a Cyclone within its hanger with drawings I have seen (albeit older public ones from before construction circa 2012), show it should be able to fit the Cyclone with a folded tail. I have not seen any photos of a Cyclone in the hanger as there is none from DeWolf's SHOL trials back in 2021 publicly available.

Is there any open source info to confirm or deny this?

There are a whole whack of defects that need corrected before the class gets air certification for any helo; it's a bit of a mess.

Don't worry though, it's built to class, so it's great (as long as you don't ask questions about something actually meets the standard).

 

[KevinB]

If you don't plan rough weather ops, then skids work fine and that is what all the CCG helo's use. Better also for "perching" onto a mountainside.

I guess we need to tell the enemy that you don’t do inclement weather then.

I’ve done mountain work with Helo’s no pilot is going to be keen to perch if they don’t need to - but I’ve seen Hooks ‘perch’ just fine on their rear two wheels to disembark and embark troops.

You also may notice that nearly all new requirements for Helo’s have wheels, I will assume that has a reason and not solely to promote the tire business.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I guess we need to tell the enemy that you don’t do inclement weather then.

I’ve done mountain work with Helo’s no pilot is going to be keen to perch if they don’t need to - but I’ve seen Hooks ‘perch’ just fine on their rear two wheels to disembark and embark troops.

You also may notice that nearly all new requirements for Helo’s have wheels, I will assume that has a reason and not solely to promote the tire business.

Perching is daily work for heli-loggers and for servicing remote sites. Done a few like that where you get out and lie down as there is no place to go till the chopper leaves. The thing is that for the AOP's 90% of their work won't require that and it will free up Cyclones for that 10% and still allow the AOP's to perform better for the lower end stuff.

 

[DBNSG]

Perching is daily work for heli-loggers and for servicing remote sites. Done a few like that where you get out and lie down as there is no place to go till the chopper leaves. The thing is that for the AOP's 90% of their work won't require that and it will free up Cyclones for that 10% and still allow the AOP's to perform better for the lower end stuff.

The question then becomes how many pensionable years will the Cyclone advocacy bunch spend fighting a 90% solution.

 

[KevinB]

The question then becomes how many pensionable years will the Cyclone advocacy bunch spend fighting a 90% solution.

I doubt you will find much of a Cyclone advocacy group anywhere these days. The main argument is how to replace them.