Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Colin Parkinson]

Other than the CEAFAR I just don't where the in the increase is other than to off set the high mounted radar.

Oh still looks like they are sticking with the 32 MK41 VLS. Is that a big weight difference? Eight missiles more so I guess 10+ tonnes more in missiles. But RCN is getting the Sea Cepter in EXSL launchers over 2 CIWS.

I think they are also increasing the beam as well. We seemed to scaled back on how many VLS we could have, which might be the smarter move as a hull design can only take so much.

 

[Rainbow1910]

As I understand it the Aussie are trying to cram way more into the hull than either us or the Brits, ours is 7,000ish DWT, theirs will be 9,000ish as I recall. Might be a bit of a dog.

Kevin McCoy, former President of Irving Shipbuilding went on record early 2021 stating that CSC would likely have a full load displacement of roughly 9,400t. Hunter is currently listed at 10,000t full load. There has been quite a period since then, obviously we have seen design changes to CSC such as the ships mast configuration and the loss of Mark 41 cells however, that previous info points to the fact that CSC and Hunter likely aren't incredibly far off with regard to full displacement loads. It's to be seen though how both final designs stack up.

 

[Underway]

CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT are actually pretty light radars for what they do. That's basically their thing. Other then that they aren't anything special.

Australia's big problem is the 32VLS. That's why they are lengthening the hull.

Our issue is a big friggin radar up high along with trying to jam in Aegis and CMS together, as well as a larger helicopter then Australia uses.

They are going to be comparable tonnages with the new data released by Canada. We'll really only know once they are closer to the end state.

 

[Grimey]

Most combat systems are like that, and has it's up and downsides; ITAR rules is one that comes to mind when they are too rigidly done (ie a bolt available at home depot is suddenly ITAR when catalogued under an NSN associated with a system because someone didn't vet the list on the US side).

If we have something unique to our ships, it's usually because it's so old we are the only ones still using it. Our readiness issues are more to do with lack of personnel/resources and lack of planning over a really long time than equipment selection.

Everything starts as COTs/MOTs and we aren't a big enough customer to sustain any business. So things like the new Cat DGs are COTs engines widely used in a number of applications that we built a special box around and mounted on shock mounts, with a few thousand other units in service. A lot of OEMs also have common components on their equipment, so for example most diesels have a common family with a high degree of shared parts (60-80%).

For major pieces of equipment there are notices sent out when there are obsoloscence things coming up pretty routinely, and that works for major items, but for all the valves, sensors etc etc (especially things bought from resellers vice the OEM) we frequently only find out it's not avaiable when we need to replace it, and that might be 20 years past the original buy. Doing that proactively takes a lot of time/effort, and we don't have capacity for either.

In theory AJISS is supposed to be doing that for everything down to the last nut and bolt, but I don't think we'll pay for that so don't expect it to be any different.

I read you on innocuous items being catalogued as a NSN. Immediately prior to Annapolis’ disposal around the tail end of 2000, I was involved in an ITAR survey on MSE systems. A few things had crept on to the list including the boiler smoke mirrors and anodes on the glands condenser below the turbo blowers. I had to arrange for their removal and sign a declaration afterwards.

Neither occurred .

 

[Spencer100]

CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT are actually pretty light radars for what they do. That's basically their thing. Other then that they aren't anything special.

Australia's big problem is the 32VLS. That's why they are lengthening the hull.

Our issue is a big friggin radar up high along with trying to jam in Aegis and CMS together, as well as a larger helicopter then Australia uses.

They are going to be comparable tonnages with the new data released by Canada. We'll really only know once they are closer to the end state.

RAN jamming SAAB 9v and Aegis together also.

 

[Underway]

RAN jamming SAAB 9v and Aegis together also.

They tried it before on the Hobarts. What they ended up having is the AWW side of Ops being Aegis and the ASW side of Ops being 9LV. There is some meeting in the middle. But it completely screwed their crewing concept. I expect the Hunters will have to do better integration.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

AOP's #5 coming together future HMCS Frederick Rolette

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615423819191300097

 

[Kirkhill]

The RN's new Minehunter

Navy reveals ‘vital’ new mine-hunting ship to detect undersea threats

New £40m vessel will be crucial in 'keeping our personnel out of harm’s way while they conduct vital operations'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Also buying a ship to guard the undersea cable and pipelines infrastructure

UK Defense Ministry Buys Offshore Construction Vessel for Subsea Cable, Pipelines Protection

The UK defense ministry has acquired a subsea construction vessel that used to work in the offshore energy industry. The vessel, Topaz Tangaroa…

www.marinetechnologynews.com

I'm guessing that if the Brits can make use of these off the shelf vessels as motherships the AOPS will continue to find gainful employment in our Northern waters.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Nice to see enthusiasm for the new role.

Head of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, Commodore David Eagles RFA, said: This is an entirely new mission for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary – and one we relish. We have been entrusted with supporting a key operation to safeguard the UK’s infrastructure, security and prosperity and that fills all of us in the RFA with pride. These are really exciting times.

The vessel, will be crewed by around two-dozen RFA sailors, while around 60 Royal Navy specialists will operate the undersea surveillance systems and other survey and warfare systems when embarked.

 

[Spencer100]

The RN's new Minehunter

Navy reveals ‘vital’ new mine-hunting ship to detect undersea threats

New £40m vessel will be crucial in 'keeping our personnel out of harm’s way while they conduct vital operations'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Also buying a ship to guard the undersea cable and pipelines infrastructure

UK Defense Ministry Buys Offshore Construction Vessel for Subsea Cable, Pipelines Protection

The UK defense ministry has acquired a subsea construction vessel that used to work in the offshore energy industry. The vessel, Topaz Tangaroa…

www.marinetechnologynews.com

I'm guessing that if the Brits can make use of these off the shelf vessels as motherships the AOPS will continue to find gainful employment in our Northern waters.

After reading about these and their roles. I would bet the AOPS could fill in these jobs for the RCN. And the RCN will have 6. With mine warfare and undersea cables and pipes becoming critical warfare point maybe the RCN is positioned well with these ships?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

After reading about these and their roles. I would bet the AOPS could fill in these jobs for the RCN. And the RCN will have 6. With mine warfare and undersea cables and pipes becoming critical warfare point maybe the RCN is positioned well with these ships?

Pipeline….I am not familiar with that word in a Canadian context….

 

[NavyShooter]

Maybe take the two that are designated for the CCG and re-role them into this?

 

[GR66]

Pipeline….I am not familiar with that word in a Canadian context….

You know...it's that thing they use to funnel money from the PMO to McKinsey!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Pipeline….I am not familiar with that word in a Canadian context….

We have a much smaller undersea pipeline footprint than the UK does. We almost had 183km pipeline to Prince Rupert, the route survey is done. I think there is some off of Sable Island?

 

[Spencer100]

We have a much smaller undersea pipeline footprint than the UK does. We almost had 183km pipeline to Prince Rupert, the route survey is done. I think there is some off of Sable Island?

lol

but we do have a these

Submarine Cable Map

TeleGeography's comprehensive and regularly updated interactive map of the world's major submarine cable systems and landing stations.

www.submarinecablemap.com

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most of those land outside of Canada, for the amount of coastline, we don't have as much

 

[Underway]

Pipeline….I am not familiar with that word in a Canadian context….

I was looking for the facepalm emoji and there isn't one on the quick links. So I laughed at this instead. Well played!

 

[MTShaw]

I was looking for the facepalm emoji and there isn't one on the quick links. So I laughed at this instead. Well played!

Canadians seem to have problems laying pipe these days.

Someone had to say it.

 

[Kirkhill]

For all those moaning about the quality of yard work in Canada

Nuclear engineer glued broken submarine bolts back together in ‘unforgivable’ blunder

Navy sources criticise defence contractor Babcock for a lack of ‘transparency’ in failing to disclose all the details of the issue

www.telegraph.co.uk

Nuclear engineer glued broken submarine bolts back together in ‘unforgivable’ blunder​

Navy sources criticise defence contractor Babcock for a lack of ‘transparency’ in failing to disclose all the details of the issue

ByDanielle Sheridan, DEFENCE EDITOR31 January 2023 • 2:34pm

A nuclear engineer glued broken submarine bolts back together in an “unforgivable” error.
The unsatisfactory repairs to HMS Vanguard’s cooling pipes were discovered after a bolt fell off whilst being tightened during checks inside the reactor chamber.
It is understood that the bolts, which were providing insulation onto elements of the pipework, snapped off after being over-tightened and were then glued back on by staff at Babcock, a defence contractor.
However, Navy sources criticised the nuclear engineering company for a lack of “transparency” for having reported an issue, but failing to disclose all the details.
They said: “Nuclear engineering is meticulously managed and while the effect of this failure is insignificant, the actual act is unforgivable.
“Instead of replacing the bolt, they glued it back on and that’s not right,” they said.

“It’s about the principle of the matter. We take nuclear engineering exceptionally seriously, we don’t cut corners and it sounds like someone might have and we need to find out who it is so they don’t do it again.”
After the error was raised by The Sun newspaper, Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, had a phone call with the chief executive of Babcock and called on them to be more transparent.
The Navy source added: “We need to work hand in glove with industry for all the right reasons. This was very much somebody, somewhere, didn’t do their job properly.”
The Ministry of Defence said the work on the 16,000 tonne Trident submarine was nearing completion and it was during a “routine inspection as part of the final stages of the project’s test and commissioning that this issue was identified”.
It said there were “no nuclear safety implications associated with the issue identified”.
Preparations for final testing of the submarine’s onboard system could “safely continue without any impact on the programme”.

'Nuclear safety isn't an optional extra'​

Luke Pollard, the MP for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, where the submarine has been undergoing maintenance since 2015, said the revelations were “concerning” and warned: “Nuclear safety isn’t an optional extra. It’s non-negotiable.”
Mr Pollard confirmed that he had also spoken to Babcock about the failure. “They need to be fully transparent about how this botched job happened and what they are doing to ensure it never happens again,” he said.
A Babcock spokesman said: “Any quality-related issue is a huge disappointment, but our own robust inspection processes discovered the issue, and we have taken immediate action to resolve it.
“Safety remains our most important priority and we can confirm there was no safety or operational impact from the work.
“We will continue to work closely with our customer, as we have throughout this most complex and critical of programmes.”

 

[Good2Golf]

Pipeline….I am not familiar with that word in a Canadian context….

It’s what we use to send our natural gas down to the US at a steep discount so that they can liquify it and mark up the price significantly to export it to Europe and the rest of the World to both profit economically and in countering the effects of Russian aggression.