Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[suffolkowner]

You need a design, production engineering, and long lead parts first. CSC is still at preliminary design review.

They havent cut steel on the Robert Hampton Gray yet so that still puts the first CSC a year out. Recently they were talking about starting in 2023. Is it not achievable?

 

[YZT580]

I would guess that there are a number of pieces that remain standard to the design and could be fabricated without the final signed-off version but whether it is worth it to reprogramme, retrain before finishing with the AOPs is another question entirely

 

[suffolkowner]

Its one year out to start versus doing the two CCG ships and pushing it out at least another year. Do they need the time? Do we need the CCG ships?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Its one year out to start versus doing the two CCG ships and pushing it out at least another year. Do they need the time? Do we need the CCG ships?

The CCG needs ships, but the AOP's is not optimal for them as it can't really do buoy work. ISI can do a test module for the CSC and possibly do some of the modules that do not change.

 

[Navy_Pete]

They havent cut steel on the Robert Hampton Gray yet so that still puts the first CSC a year out. Recently they were talking about starting in 2023. Is it not achievable?

I have no idea, but if I did I probably couldn't confirm or deny either.

Probably a lot of things they can start on ahead of time, but a big part of the reason for the CCG ships was to plug the gap between AOPs and CSC, so wouldn't expect them to really do much until that point.

It's much thinner plating, so lots of test welds to do to set up the automated stations as well as to build into the modules. Like applying paint, not really exciting, unless you do it wrong, but can get complicated.

 

[suffolkowner]

I have no idea, but if I did I probably couldn't confirm or deny either.

Probably a lot of things they can start on ahead of time, but a big part of the reason for the CCG ships was to plug the gap between AOPs and CSC, so wouldn't expect them to really do much until that point.

It's much thinner plating, so lots of test welds to do to set up the automated stations as well as to build into the modules. Like applying paint, not really exciting, unless you do it wrong, but can get complicated.

Obviously I have no idea how much work can be done before everything is squared away but mainly I just want the project to get going as I think its going to be a rough replacement process unless Irving can really learn from what has gone on in the UK program and from the AOPS. There were a bunch of welding problems reported on the UK ship and then the desire to assemble under cover as well. We will probably be waiting on an answer for another 6 months at least and if it cant be done then I guess the CCG gets a ship or two

 

[Navy_Pete]

Obviously I have no idea how much work can be done before everything is squared away but mainly I just want the project to get going as I think its going to be a rough replacement process unless Irving can really learn from what has gone on in the UK program and from the AOPS. There were a bunch of welding problems reported on the UK ship and then the desire to assemble under cover as well. We will probably be waiting on an answer for another 6 months at least and if it cant be done then I guess the CCG gets a ship or two

There are still a few major design decisions to get figured out that may require some structural changes; doing things like changing major weapon systems, radars etc or making the hull bigger means it's not 'off the shelf'.

Those are really Canada decisions, not really ISI though, so really our own fault for putting a huge AEGIS system up high and some other major changes, but I think the hull itself is now bigger compared to the original.

There are probably a few million feet of welding in a ship, so you'll always have issues somewhere. QC on builds is different then repairs, and they've done a lot on AOPS that will directly translate over, but with the extra deformation you'll get with welding thinner steel it'll be more of a general challenge. Also way more compartmentalization and things packed in, so expect there will be ongoing lessons learned

 

[don3wing]

I have no idea, but if I did I probably couldn't confirm or deny either.

Probably a lot of things they can start on ahead of time, but a big part of the reason for the CCG ships was to plug the gap between AOPs and CSC, so wouldn't expect them to really do much until that point.

It's much thinner plating, so lots of test welds to do to set up the automated stations as well as to build into the modules. Like applying paint, not really exciting, unless you do it wrong, but can get complicated.

The Robert Hampton Gray first cutting of the steel occred back on August 15th or whereabouts.

Production of Canada's Sixth and Final Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship for the Royal Canadian Navy Underway with Cutting of First Steel for the Future HMCS Robert Hampton Gray

 

[suffolkowner]

The Robert Hampton Gray first cutting of the steel occred back on August 15th or whereabouts.

Production of Canada's Sixth and Final Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship for the Royal Canadian Navy Underway with Cutting of First Steel for the Future HMCS Robert Hampton Gray

Yeah I was going to post that this morning so likely Irving is over the Covid issues and back on schedule. Odds are better that they will do the two CCG ships

 

[Navy_Pete]

The Robert Hampton Gray first cutting of the steel occred back on August 15th or whereabouts.

Production of Canada's Sixth and Final Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship for the Royal Canadian Navy Underway with Cutting of First Steel for the Future HMCS Robert Hampton Gray

That's a bit of a PR milestone, vice an indication that production has started in earnest. The cutting line is pretty wild though and only really needs one or two people, and then the output parts go into a bin/flat for later production. Makes sense generally though as they'll have 2 in production and starting to get the steel prepped for the next one, but still years out from actually seeing that one hit water.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's being reported the HDW is down until April. Max Bernays was accepted with mechanical issues and Margaret Brooke just came back to serviceability from bow thruster problems.

And Irving is off the hook for HDW. It's out of its 1 year warranty.

And apparently RCN sailors have been speaking with the press questioning the capability of the AOPS.

 

[Lumber]

It's being reported the HDW is down until April. Max Bernays was accepted with mechanical issues and Margaret Brooke just came back to serviceability from bow thruster problems.

And Irving is off the hook for HDW. It's out of its 1 year warranty.

And apparently RCN sailors have been speaking with the press questioning the capability of the AOPS.

Yes, but the accommodations are money!

 

[Stoker]

It's being reported the HDW is down until April. Max Bernays was accepted with mechanical issues and Margaret Brooke just came back to serviceability from bow thruster problems.

And Irving is off the hook for HDW. It's out of its 1 year warranty.

And apparently RCN sailors have been speaking with the press questioning the capability of the AOPS.

The Halifax Class were a dog's breakfast when they first came out, lots of initial issues that were rectified this is no different. One-year warranty on items is pretty standard. Considering where this story came from, I would question some of the facts being reported.

 

[Maxman1]

I don't think you can even get a warranty that long from Chrysler.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Halifax Class were a dog's breakfast when they first came out, lots of initial issues that were rectified this is no different. One-year warranty on items is pretty standard. Considering where this story came from, I would question some of the facts being reported.

Well I definitely hope we continue to give business to Irving. From the CPFs to the AOPs its top quality product right out of the gate.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes, but the accommodations are money!

And WiFi ...

 

[Navy_Pete]

The Halifax Class were a dog's breakfast when they first came out, lots of initial issues that were rectified this is no different. One-year warranty on items is pretty standard. Considering where this story came from, I would question some of the facts being reported.

Which facts are you questioning? The issues aren't minor in nature, and not really comparable to first of class for the CPFs. It's also a commercial standard build so way less tolerance for major defects as there is less redundancy and way less compartmentalization.

 

[NavyShooter]

My thoughts on ISI are well known I think.

I am completely unsurprised by any of this.

 

[Navy_Pete]

My thoughts on ISI are well known I think.

I am completely unsurprised by any of this.

Also a big difference between warranty work and underlying design issues; at least car makers will do a recall on earlier models if they realize something they build doesn't work and is a safety issue.

I blame our lawyers for being giant weenies though; they are too worried about 'optics' to actually enforce contract terms and conditions. A good working relationship is important in a partnership, but that doesn't mean we should lie down and take it if they shit the bed (and the class society doesn't catch it, or head office is pressured into overruling the local surveyors when they find something).

 

[Good2Golf]

Also a big difference between warranty work and underlying design issues; at least car makers will do a recall on earlier models if they realize something they build doesn't work and is a safety issue.

…and the actuarial insurance tables vetted by lawyers say a class action lawsuit would cost more than fixing the problem.