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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

If you critically filter some of the tire pumping and focus on the details, this is an excellent video tour and explanation of how the HDW is being trialed and some of its capabilities.

How they are proving the equipment and systems is very interesting.

Delivering the AOPS
 
Underway said:
If you critically filter some of the tire pumping and focus on the details, this is an excellent video tour and explanation of how the HDW is being trialed and some of its capabilities.

How they are proving the equipment and systems is very interesting.

Delivering the AOPS
Click to expand...

Dammit, the RCN's secret is out: Now someone at ISL knows, not just suspects but knows, that the RCN ships are run by professional seafarers.

Just kidding. Couldn't resist seeing as how the commentator seems surprised that the sailors know how to secure everything properly for heavy seas, that the Captain shows good leadership and the Navigator and met tech are so good at getting all the meteorological information needed to confirm the validity of the tests.
 
You are invited to watch

The Royal Canadian Navy’s virtual Commissioning Ceremony of AOPV 430, Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship Harry DeWolf

With reviewing officer

His Honour, The Honourable Arthur J. LeBlanc, ONS, QC,

Lieutenant-Governor of Nova Scotia



Saturday, June 26 at 1 p.m. ADT

LIVE Facebook Event

LIVE stream of the ceremony will be broadcast on the Royal Canadian Navy Facebook page at

Log into Facebook


Vous êtes invités à assister à

La cérémonie virtuellement de mise en service du NPEA 430, le Navire canadien de Sa Majesté Harry DeWolf de la Marine Royale Canadienne
Officier de la revue
Son Honneur l’honorable Arthur J. LeBlanc, O.N.S., c.r.,
lieutenant-gouverneur de la Nouvelle-Écosse

Samedi 26 juin à 13 h HAA
EN DIRECT sur Facebook

La cérémonie sera diffusée en direct sur la page Facebook de la Marine royale canadienne à l’adresse
Log into Facebook​
 
The original plan for the commissioning ceremony.

They wanted to do it in Hamilton Ontario beside HMCS Haida, Harry DeWolf's old ship and the ceremonial flagship of the RCN. A Great Lakes tour to show it off to Quebec and Ontario.

Stupid COVID. As a former STAR that would have been spectacular.
 
More quickly?

The ISL press release indicates they expect to start construction of the CSC in 2024. In the UK, BAE started on the first one in 2017 and they still expect that she will join the fleet in 2023 (6 1/2 year), the Australians are currently planning on laying down the first one in 2022, with an expected in service date of 2031 (9 years). Assuming ISL can do it in 7 years, that puts the first replacement of the actual combat fleet joining in 2033, at which point the youngest of the Halifax will be 37 years old. Perhaps people remember that the original plan of the Shipbuilding Strategy was that the first replacement combat ship would join the fleet in mid-2020's, not start to build.

There just has to be some form of interim solution, I don't know what, but something that leaves us with a combat fleet that can fight in the meantime.*

*: My personal choice would be a one time quick purchase (or even leasing) of six Arleigh Burke, not older than 10 years, from the US, to retire the six oldest Halifax, and then proceed as planned with the continual build from ISL.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
More quickly?

…

There just has to be some form of interim solution, I don't know what, but something that leaves us with a combat fleet that can fight in the meantime.*
Click to expand...
Taking a page from the Lineral Government’s savvy move to help extend the RCAF capability until….well….whenever, why don’t we look to overpay for some used surplus Type 23s?
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
More quickly?

The ISL press release indicates they expect to start construction of the CSC in 2024. In the UK, BAE started on the first one in 2017 and they still expect that she will join the fleet in 2023 (6 1/2 year), the Australians are currently planning on laying down the first one in 2022, with an expected in service date of 2031 (9 years). Assuming ISL can do it in 7 years, that puts the first replacement of the actual combat fleet joining in 2033, at which point the youngest of the Halifax will be 37 years old. Perhaps people remember that the original plan of the Shipbuilding Strategy was that the first replacement combat ship would join the fleet in mid-2020's, not start to build.

There just has to be some form of interim solution, I don't know what, but something that leaves us with a combat fleet that can fight in the meantime.*

*: My personal choice would be a one time quick purchase (or even leasing) of six Arleigh Burke, not older than 10 years, from the US, to retire the six oldest Halifax, and then proceed as planned with the continual build from ISL.
Click to expand...
The US is short of DDs, too. That lease thing ain’t going to happen…
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
More quickly?

The ISL press release indicates they expect to start construction of the CSC in 2024. In the UK, BAE started on the first one in 2017 and they still expect that she will join the fleet in 2023 (6 1/2 year), the Australians are currently planning on laying down the first one in 2022, with an expected in service date of 2031 (9 years). Assuming ISL can do it in 7 years, that puts the first replacement of the actual combat fleet joining in 2033, at which point the youngest of the Halifax will be 37 years old. Perhaps people remember that the original plan of the Shipbuilding Strategy was that the first replacement combat ship would join the fleet in mid-2020's, not start to build.

There just has to be some form of interim solution, I don't know what, but something that leaves us with a combat fleet that can fight in the meantime.*

*: My personal choice would be a one time quick purchase (or even leasing) of six Arleigh Burke, not older than 10 years, from the US, to retire the six oldest Halifax, and then proceed as planned with the continual build from ISL.
Click to expand...
Your timelines for CSC are very close to the actual planned ones.

As for the interim solution, fighting isn't an issue. The HCM refit means the ships can fight, combat systems are fully modernized, the new sonar system install coming next and the Cyclone means they can fight even better underwater. New diesel engines have really improved the electrical system as well.

However, the hulls are old, and wear and tear are taking their toll. The maintenance is getting a little crazy. Freddie had 20m long section of her hull replaced (all-round, keel to 1 deck) with a fix of her frame in that same place.

The solution as being applied is for two ships at a time to be in a Docking Work Period one in Davie and the other at Irving. That also means its more likely that frigate availability rates will drop. AOPS can shoulder some of the burden but they aren't a combatant.

The West Coast ships are in better condition, though they have certain advantages. West Coast ships do not have tiled decks they have seamless ones which have significantly reduced rust/rot getting between the deck covering and the steel. They also don't have the same winters, so no tracking of salt/grit into the ship and no large temp flux putting strain on the ship as well.
 
IIRC, Underway, the National Strategy called for, when the winners were announced, delivery of ALL contracted vessels within 30 years. The winners were announced end of 2011, so final delivery would be 2041/42. At one ship a year, subtract 15 from 41 and you get first delivery in 2026.

As for the age of the current ships, it was not the combat systems and weapons that bother me: its the capability to even deploy, and what you are telling me is that the deterioration of the basic hull and its fixtures has already started. Will we have to wait for the Halifax's to start falling apart as the Iroquois did before? I don't believe the HAL's can last much longer than another ten years. As ships age, they get to point where no one, not the engineers, not the navarcs, not even professional hull surveyors can tell you or predict what will let go next. How can you get into a fight with ships like that? That was all I was driving at.

And SKT, the US Navy is not short of DD. If they were, they would be pushing congress to appropriate more - and they would get it as these are vote getters - but they are not: DDg's are coming out at a steady rate that could be increased if need be. What the USN is short of is ships for the lower end tasks. These were supposed to be covered by the Littoral ships, but they turned out to be a bust, which is why the USN is now pursuing the acquisition of frigates. In short, I think the USN would have no problem with providing Canada 6 of its ten year old Arleigh Burke and slightly increase the production tempo of more recent brand new ones for a couple of years to make it up.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
IIRC, Underway, the National Strategy called for, when the winners were announced, delivery of ALL contracted vessels within 30 years. The winners were announced end of 2011, so final delivery would be 2041/42. At one ship a year, subtract 15 from 41 and you get first delivery in 2026.

As for the age of the current ships, it was not the combat systems and weapons that bother me: its the capability to even deploy, and what you are telling me is that the deterioration of the basic hull and its fixtures has already started. Will we have to wait for the Halifax's to start falling apart as the Iroquois did before? I don't believe the HAL's can last much longer than another ten years. As ships age, they get to point where no one, not the engineers, not the navarcs, not even professional hull surveyors can tell you or predict what will let go next. How can you get into a fight with ships like that? That was all I was driving at.

And SKT, the US Navy is not short of DD. If they were, they would be pushing congress to appropriate more - and they would get it as these are vote getters - but they are not: DDg's are coming out at a steady rate that could be increased if need be. What the USN is short of is ships for the lower end tasks. These were supposed to be covered by the Littoral ships, but they turned out to be a bust, which is why the USN is now pursuing the acquisition of frigates. In short, I think the USN would have no problem with providing Canada 6 of its ten year old Arleigh Burke and slightly increase the production tempo of more recent brand new ones for a couple of years to make it up.
Click to expand...
Not sure why you are thinking the deterioration of the CPF fixtures is just starting; the piping, wiring and most mechanical systems are 30 years old. The 280s were actually in much better condition after their TRUMP modernization as they did baseline refits for the first half of the life and then switched to 'condition based'. The CPFs started as condition based, just without funding to check the condition or adequate time to repair the known defects. At retirement, the firemains on the 280s were actually newer than anything in the CPFs now. DWPs aside, they are being beaten to heck in service without enough time/resources for repairs with the half crews that are working them, and then people are surprised when they limp into the ditch needing massive repairs (that we can't do all of). The combat systems are great, but the core 'float move' systems are pretty much all foxed, with significant challenges in basics like the sea water, fresh water, sewage, and HP/LP air systems that are essentially original.

In the interim, we should probably slow the operational tempo so that we aren't putting ships to sea with defects that wouldn't allow them out of the harbour if they were merchant ships for routine training exercises, and give a chance for the partially crewed departments and limited FMF resources time to do actual repairs. It takes a few years to do the training for a new class, and the USN crewing philosophy is totally different, so we'd need two core crews to get a single Arleigh out the harbour. We're already short crew with retention/recruiting issues, not really sure where they would come from. Or we could keep pretending we're fine until something goes really poorly; we've dodged the bullet a few times already, but there are major breakdowns that cost millions in repairs from PM not being completed and ships being pushed out to sea anyway.
 
The RCN's biggest problem isn't platforms, it's people. Its leadership refuse to accept that they could ever be wrong. And they still think themselves more British than the British, as is evidenced in the makeup of hard sea trades: about 10% Francophone, despite the country being 25% Francophone. Indeed, in the one hundred eleven years of the RCN, there has never been a Francophone in command.

No shipbuilding program, no enhanced maintenance program, no re-introduction of the executive curl or extra-legal rank change will solve the RCN's foundational problem: its leaders.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
IIRC, Underway, the National Strategy called for, when the winners were announced, delivery of ALL contracted vessels within 30 years. The winners were announced end of 2011, so final delivery would be 2041/42. At one ship a year, subtract 15 from 41 and you get first delivery in 2026.
Click to expand...
Which contract for CSC? Five contracts have been awarded so far. They haven't signed the build contract yet, and it will be likely for 3 ships as they need to complete the design phase first. The winner of CSC warship design team (LMC and BAE) was announced in Feb 2019, 7 years after you state. The ship design contract wasn't signed until May 2019. The CSC construction contract was awarded to ISI in 2020. The first CSC delivery is expected in early 2030 and closeout is mid-2040.

I think you are referring to the award of the two shipyards to do the NSPS building, which was awarded around 2011. But I don't know what if any timeframes that came with that announcement.

Navy_Pete said:
In the interim, we should probably slow the operational tempo
Click to expand...
The next two years have a significant reduction in total sea days. Which of course means there is going to be a pinch in training... give some take some away. AFAIK only two frigates will be sailing on a regular basis on the east coast. The rest are getting work done of one sort or the other. We'll see if that holds.

In AOPS news...

The maiden voyage for the newly commissioned ship will be a circumnavigation of North America. They are going in Aug to sail the northwest passage, visit their Inuit sponsors and other communities. Refuel Nanisivik and then head over to Victoria. Victoria is a Short Work Period, a little leave for the crew and then they are heading south to OP CARIB on both the west coast of Mexico and the Caribbean. They will be embarking USCG for that operation. When the OP is done, back home to Halifax, medals, and awards all around!

I can't help but be a little jealous. That sounds like a pretty cool trip to brag about when you're a grandparent.
 
That would be an awesome trip. We almost had to do a eastward passage as it it was touch and go to get around Pt Barrow, we made it by hours and then the sheet ice piled up, blocking the passage. I was kind of sad as it would have made a good trip.
 
Underway said:
The next two years have a significant reduction in total sea days. Which of course means there is going to be a pinch in training... give some take some away. AFAIK only two frigates will be sailing on a regular basis on the east coast. The rest are getting work done of one sort or the other. We'll see if that holds.
Click to expand...
I've heard that repeatedly, but don't see any actual lower tempo materializing. EC work periods keep getting canceled, and ships are doing all kinds of trials, and other 'low tempo' operations that still mean they are still out to sea. Even with COVID shutting down the dockyards and severely impacting the amount of work that could get done there were no real schedule delays, despite significant known serious defects. There are so many out there they aren't even being properly documented, OPDEFd or risk managed. The DWPs are in the 9 figure range now and not even addressing all the issues, and we're still blindly pressing on.

The entire world was basically shut down for the last 18 months and we still drove the crap out of the fleet, so I'm not optimistic. 'Low Ops Tempo' without meaningful work periods with enough resources and time to fix things, reasonable crewing levels and actually understanding the mechanical state of the ships means we're just crossing our fingers and hoping we continue to get lucky, and that no one actually dies when something goes badly. We self regulate, so we can send the ships to sea not meeting the same technical standard as what a merchant ship would, but that has become the norm instead of the exception. It's totally unecessary when we are on a reduced tempo, peacetime footing.
 
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