Applications to join foreign forces (Britian and Australia)

[30 for 30]

England is a great place but, from my experience, the standard of living is considerably lower compared to Canada. A lot of expenses are much higher, as well. I would recommend someone visit for a few months before selling the farm and joining up over there. CF pay is relatively high, as well, with a Pte of three years making over $42.000 annually if I'm not mistaken looking at the latest pay tables. That's more than I make after 4.5 years at my civi job, and I'm supposed to be an Office Manager. Maybe its time to ask for a raise.

That being said, I would still join up over there, but my understanding is that the chance has been missed, even with my British citizenship. They're really enforcing that multi-year residence requirement now, aren't they? I'm also apparently an old man at 28. When I lived there my Canadian buddy joined the Marines after a month in country, no problem.

 

[Rubes]

Che,
Thanks a lot for the reply.  After high school perhaps I'll spend some time there to get an idea of what it's like.  Thanks again.

RNW, I've actually heard that the multi-year residence requirement has been all but thrown out the window.  Of course this is just heresay, but from what I read it's not difficult to get a waiver for that sort of stuff.  I'm hoping so anyway...

 

[winchable]

The residence requirement is official but inconsistently enforced, I've been told both by the marines, the navy as a whole and the army that they don't care as long as I am British, was Born in Britain and live in Britain.
The consenus I've gotten from the home office, civil servants, army, navy and air force is if they want you and you want in, they will get you...

28 years old is quite old to sell the farm and ship off regardless of pay differences and allegiances.
The ideal age IMHO is between 18-22.

It is expensive to live here, sort of, it all balances out in the end and it really only is about 2-4% more expensive for everyday living expenses (nevermind the license you need for a TV) but the younger you are and the less ties you have in Canada the easier it is to quickly adjust to these differences.

For instance a 30 year old who has been working at a steady career in Canada will find it quite difficult to adjust to the difference in pay and living standards but the 20 year old who hasn't settled into a career and still lives at home will not notice the difference if their first foray into independence is in Britain.

Just my opinion and it's getting to be a more and more weathered and seasoned opinion everyday now.

 

[Jascar]

Did you apply to the army when you were still in Canada or only when you arrived in the UK? If you waited until you arrived there, what sort of things did you need for the application? I've heard it can be faster for commonwealth citizens to wait and apply when they're actually in country, so I'm considering doing that.

Are you dealing solely with the AFCO in London that handles overseas applicants?

 

[winchable]

I'm not applying as a citizen of the commonwealth, I'm a British Citizen so I am dealing with the AFCO in Birmingham as it doesn't seem to matter fo us.
I imagine it would be far easier if you applied while in country rather than overseas, the transatlantic mail service is atrocious whereas you can just take the train into London (expensive perhaps) and talk to them face to face and drop off documents.

They wanted two references less than 6 months old, my passport and birth certificate. I'm not sure if there are different requirements if you're applying as a commonwealth citizen. I think if you are applying as a commonwealth ciitzen they may want something to prove that you have no commitments to the Canadian Military, they might still ask me for that I'll know more on Monday, though that has been discussed earlier in the thread.

Sorry I can't be of more help, at first I was like you a commonwealth applicant when I was just talking to them while I was overseas then once I brought in my UK Passport and UK birth certificate they told me not to worry and to go to the closest recruiting center rather than the one in London.

 

[SeaRoom]

Jascar,

In June 1996 (so policies may be out of date) I made inquiries about enrolling as a officer in the British army with the office in London (can't remember if it was called AFCO or not, maybe Army Liason Office, but they did deal with oversea applicants.) I was told that even though I was a British citizen (dual) there was a residence requirement of 10 years for officers applicants. But, if I enlisted in the ranks on an "O-Type" special engagement (no binding contract essentially), and did six months service in the ranks, they would waiver the 10 year requirement.

In September I was asked to come to London for an interview. I arrived in London in mid September, had my interview, was told that I would go the Pre-RCB (Pre-Regular Commissioning Board) in one weeks time, and would begin basic recruit training in two weeks in Winchester. So I threw away my return plane ticket, and headed to to the Pre-RCB, and then the Army Training Regiment for Basic.

After I did Basic, I attended the POD (Potential Officer Development) course, mandatory for all unskilled (no previous officer experience) overseas officer applicants. The course is designed for ranks who have been selected to challenge the RCB, but also helps beak in overseas persons to British and British Army culture. It's actually an amazing course - great opportunities and quite challenging. In addition to course mates from the ranks of the British Army, there were guys from South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Rep of Ireland. as long as you had Commonwealth citizenship (not necessarily British), you could join on the special engagement like myself.

After the course your six months are up, and you can challenge the full RCB. Be prepared for a very different culture, especially evident in the army. Officers drink gin and watch rugby, men drink beer and watch soccer - that sort of thing. In the end, my heart wasn't really in it and I did make a great effort at the full RCB. I just didn't feel the same way about serving the UK as I did about serving Canada. It kind of surprised me. This possibility did not occure to me previous to applying. I was encourage to retry the Board in six months (continued special engagement - non-binding), spending my time in the holding platoon or carrying on with further soldier training for six months. I opted to return to Canada, and join the CF.

This is all pre-9/11, so things may have change, but the office in London will certainly take care of you. If you get a call for a interview, be ready for a long stay!!

 

[SeaRoom]

That should be "...didn't make a great effort at the RCB..." Always forget the " 't ."

 

[Jascar]

In the ranks now there's only a small window where you can get out of the 4 year contract. I don't know what it is in the army, but in the marines it's any time after the fourth week until the end of basic you're allowed out. I'm amazed that you were allowed out so easily back then, though it sounds like everything worked out well for you in the end.

I think I'm just going to wait and apply when I get over there. I've heard from several people that it's faster and they're much more helpful when you're in country.

 

[Northern Touch]

Curious, most of this thread deals with the officer side of things.  Is anybody up to speed with how these changes would affect someone trying to apply as an NCM?  Such as sponsors in country, prior service in commonwealth countries, and time in country before joining?

 

[winchable]

Re: NCM Applications, I can help you out wrt to the Marines as I looked into both routes.

They can only start applications once you are in the country, you must provide a letter from the residence where you are staying to prove you are actually reisding in the UK (call them sponsors if you will)
Two letters of reference no older than 6 months, from people who have known you for 2 years or more.

They didn't make any mention of time in the country, though I would personally reccomend you don't just jump into the Marines when you get here, take two weeks get used to the geography, place names, customs etc. That's an optional suggestion from me, not an official one though. It might not be the same as joining the French Legion when it comes to the culture shock but it's worlds apart for most people I've talked to who have immigrated or emigrated.

Prior service might help you in that you will readily adjust to military life style but I can't see them transferring your rank over or speeding up the process, they have mountains of qualified applicants already.

 

[Jascar]

They can only start applications once you are in the country

Really? Good to know, I am applying to the marines. I'll I've got from them so far is a letter asking to contact them at a number that I can never get through to so I'm a little in the dark about the application process.

As for the army NCM's, you can fill out an appliacation and mail it to them while you're still in your home country, though they make it clear that they don't really have time for you since they get boat loads of applications (25,000 per year from commonwealth citizens alone!) You do need a sponsor in country, a certificate stating that you've ended service with your country's military if it applies, 2 letters of reference, an eye prescription and medical questionnaire filled out by doctors, a police record check, a passport valid for at least 4 years (tough with Canada's 5 year passports).......am I forgetting anything? The time in country requirement is still very unclear, but it sounds like it can be easy to get around for NCM applicants.

 

[Infanteer]

Good to know, I am applying to the marines.

It's Marines - just trying to save you some pain down the road....

 

[winchable]

Really? Good to know, I am applying to the marines. I'll I've got from them so far is a letter asking to contact them at a number that I can never get through to so I'm a little in the dark about the application process.

I can be more useful with any queries you have about the Marines, as I first queried them as a commonwealth citizen looking at an NCM slot.
The only thing I could tell you wrt to the number you're calling is remember that, depending on where you live, we could be up to 12 hours ahead of you (4 if you're on the East Coast and 12 if you're on the West) so if you're calling after you get off work or something you might try doing it before work at 5AM or so.
I'm assuming you considered that, but just a thought.
Also if you're problem is with the area codes or international dialing prefix try dialling the operator and giving her the number as you've got it, they just changed dialling prefixes again so it's possible that's your problem.
Forgetting all of that, the number I have dialled in the UK is 08456 07 55 55 give that to the operator and see if she can help your sort out dialling prefixes, they'll send you on the greater london careers office and you'll talk to a guy there who will send a big package, then go from there.


Army stuff I probably wont be much help with because I'm not applying as a commonwealth citizen.

 

[Jascar]

I had thought of the time difference, and I did dial the 011 prefix, but only 1 in 20 calls gets through and those always ring busy.

Why did you apply to the Marines as a Commonwealth rather than a British citizen? How are things going with the Greenjackets? I've heard they have more Commonwealth citizens compared to other regiments, any truth to that?

 

[winchable]

I enquired to the Marines as a commonwealth applicant because at the time I was in Canada and they said it didn't make much difference if I was British or Commonwealth as long as I was in the right shape.

The greenjackets do supposedly have a number of Canadians in their rank and file and this was briefly mentioned to me, I've got a familiarisation visit to get to yet as well as a few meet and greets. It's an odd system for choosing officer candidates here, it definetly gives off a "way of life" vibe as opposed to "9-5 job" feel. Hard to explain.

 

[cadettrooper]

I was wonder if and how a canadian Citizen could join the British Army (IE...Brit Para).

 

[1feral1]

Currently in the unit I am with we have a selection of Kiwis, Pommy bastards, and two Cdns. All the rest are convict stock  We are even both in the same SQN. Yes, and both from western Canada to boot.

Just remember for those who seems to think there is some romantic or cool twist to enlisting in a foreign military force. There is not, and if you think so, and wanna live the fantasy, well thats short lived very bloody quick. You'll have tears as big has horse turds running down your baby faces for sure (thats for the fantisizers)

It aint for everyone, and its no picnic, believe me. Leaving family, friends and saying good-bye to all was truly the most difficult things I have ever done, and after going on 12 yrs, it still haunts me, and honestly bothers me from time to time. I was on the other side of the world and not even present when my mother died, and I have missed countless special occasions from those close to me.

Its not as you are moving close by, its 20,000km, and its a new life commitment, which includes the country you have now adopted as taking precidence over anything and everything else. Thats how it is, and thats what one does, although I never EVER forget my roots for a second. It means taking another citizenship out too. Not for mummies boys for a hearbeat!

For those crazy or stupid enough to do it for real, fill your boots.

As for me, was I crazy? Absof***inglutley! would I change anything? Yes, I would have come here at 21 instead of 35!

Personally, I have think reached an apex in my career right now ( I am 46 yrs old), and I have never been more busy or had such intense invlovment in whats going on for me in the upcoming demanding months ahead.

;D

Regards,

Wes

 

[winchable]

I'll agree with everything Wes said,

If you read back in the thread you can get a sense for my own odyssey, I learned a few things but one thing I'd like to add on top of Wes' excellent advice is:

If you want to get an education, get one before you go!!! The biggest reason I've come back is to finish my degree, I still plan to return without a doubt as it's what I really want to do, and a 2 year pause to finish my undergraduate is small compared to the 20+ year career I hope to enjoy in the military.
Not sure if that sounds like you at all, but it was definitely me, I felt like I'd left something big unfinished (2 years done, 2 or 3 to go now) and to a certain extent I felt like a quitter for leaving it that way, a quitter I am not.
Also, having a degree in a field you like, makes it a tiny bit easier to get work in a job you like while you're applying (which could take a while) rather than cleaning the washroom in a pub for a year.

In short, prepare everything perfectly before you go, physically I was fit enough, I had a good job to take up time from application to enrollment, I had British Citizenship, more family there than I do in Canada, I was mentally prepared to leave my family and friends behind, I had zeroed in on precisely which branch of the military I wanted to join (after many, many changes), I had researched all the occpations, met with dozens recruiters, had a familiarisation visit, but as I said, I was almost entirely preoccupied with not having that damn degree I wanted and that hung over my head every day I woke up as much as I wanted to be in England doing what I was doing.

Good luck!

 

[cobbler]

Currently in the unit I am with we have a selection of Kiwis, Pommy bastards, and two Cdns. All the rest are convict stock  We are even both in the same SQN. Yes, and both from western Canada to boot.

Just remember for those who seems to think there is some romantic or cool twist to enlisting in a foreign military force. There is not, and if you think so, and wanna live the fantasy, well thats short lived very bloody quick. You'll have tears as big has horse turds running down your baby faces for sure (thats for the fantisizers)

It aint for everyone, and its no picnic, believe me. Leaving family, friends and saying good-bye to all was truly the most difficult things I have ever done, and after going on 12 yrs, it still haunts me, and honestly bothers me from time to time. I was on the other side of the world and not even present when my mother died, and I have missed countless special occasions from those close to me.

Its not as you are moving close by, its 20,000km, and its a new life commitment, which includes the country you have now adopted as taking precidence over anything and everything else. Thats how it is, and thats what one does, although I never EVER forget my roots for a second. It means taking another citizenship out too. Not for mummies boys for a hearbeat!

For those crazy or stupid enough to do it for real, fill your boots.

As for me, was I crazy? Absof***inglutley! would I change anything? Yes, I would have come here at 21 instead of 35!

Personally, I have think reached an apex in my career right now ( I am 46 yrs old), and I have never been more busy or had such intense invlovment in whats going on for me in the upcoming demanding months ahead.

;D

Regards,

Wes

I must say a big thank you Wes.

It's great to know we have such dedicated people serving in the Australian Army. I'm sure it was difficult, especially to say goodbye to and miss out on so much for a country you weren't born in, but it is truly appreciated. Thank god there are blokes like you who are willing to do it.