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Funny way to spell “ADM (Mat)/PSPC”…All those issues sound like the RCN failed to provide professional supervision of the refits and repairs.
Funny way to spell “ADM (Mat)/PSPC”…All those issues sound like the RCN failed to provide professional supervision of the refits and repairs.
It's not either / or - projects have both a sponsor and an implementer. The RCN owns the requirement - if they are hands off...Funny way to spell “ADM (Mat)/PSPC”…
Always warms my heart to hear someone tell stories of Unions and the shenanigans that they tend to play.Facts according to you eh?
Point is that they did it to meet the delivery timeline and that was their driving factor. You're telling me that they couldn't build a regular superstructure in Canada regardless of the cruise ship technology? If it was under the NSS it wouldn't be allowed.
Quebec shipyard late delivering Coast Guard icebreakers after pushing federal government on purchase
Ottawa agreed to purchase the three used civilian ships at a cost of at least $827M in August 2018 after Trudeau surprised many by personally announcing negotiationsnationalpost.com
Of course we had to forcibly take ships back out of refit as the yards and unions played games with refits all the time. One yard in Quebec cut a hole in the ship so we couldn't take it back. The Margaree was stolen with tugs in the middle of the night out of Sorel and Protecteur was taken out of Lauzon in 79. because of union shenanigan's. Just because you never head about it, it never happened. Of course this was years ago, but Davie has always made a point on celebrating their history.
Imagine a private construction project without ongoing supervision. Now admitedly it is mostly done by the GC which in this case is the shipyard but still how many private construction projects in Canada would be on par with a refit of a RCN ship or approach a $4B new frigateIt's not either / or - projects have both a sponsor and an implementer. The RCN owns the requirement - if they are hands off...
Twist things you don't know, as usual.
I served in PROTECTEUR in 1980: She hadn't been in refit for four years and was going in refit the next year. So, no, she wasn't in refit in 1979.
As for MARGAREE, she was in refit in MONTREAL, at Vickers, and was towed to Halifax as a mutually agreed move with the navy so she wouldn't be stuck in the ice bound St Lawrence system in winter. That is not "stealing" a ship, which is what you mentioned was done many times before.
As for the superstructure thing for Asterix, keep not reading what I write: It confirms the opening statement of my post above.
I gave you the only two instances of "forcible" taking of ships by the RCN. If you can prove with actual evidence other than your word, of any other "forcible" taking, I am all ears. Agreeing to change a ship's location in mid refit is not "forcible".
If by "faulted" meaning a steam of unsolicited bids, Davie and Federal Fleets press releases and a steady diet of boosts that the ship is better than the JSS....properly the reason why they did get the 3rd shipyard status for many years.
All those issues sound like the RCN failed to provide professional supervision of the refits and repairs.
Most of my interactions was with the head of PR for Federal Fleet. He used to cruise some of the Navy facebook pages commenting on people talking about JSS and Asterix. He made alot of claims about the ship, he was called out on a number of them as well.Can you provide some examples where Davies has directly compared the Asterix to JSS ?
That would be a terribly silly thing to do.
That would never happen.
Ah well if a single random source from Reddit said so it must be trueNo I got my accounts from people who were there and perhaps all the dates are wrong, I wasn't there but I'm sure you'll say they're lying because your were in the know. Its amazing the history you hear from fellow sailors.
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Most of my interactions was with the head of PR for Federal Fleet. He used to cruise some of the Navy facebook pages commenting on people talking about JSS and Asterix. He made alot of claims about the ship, he was called out on a number of them as well.
No, multiple accounts from people I know to be in the RCN who were Coxns, Chief Engineers etc. Not reddit. I suppose they could be all lying of course.Ah well if a single random source from Reddit said so it must be true
We'll he did post some side to side comparisons of JSS verses Asterix. I agree there is currently a place for Asterix as something is better than nothing. IF we ended up buying it as the 3rd AOR then I would like to see actual GOC employees or all RCN running it, crewing as it is probably won't happen. In a perfect world buy a 3rd JSS or a few offshore built oilers to service our allies. I predict we'll look at the numbers in three years of purchasing, look at the condition of Asterix and most likely will not buy it. Of course Davie and Federal Fleet will scream blue murder.Hmmm interesting that's not what I was led to believe from your original quote, but I digress.
I agree comparing the two is a fools errand. JSS is much more capable. Having said that, I think there is a place for an Asterix styled AOR.
That's why we need a proper RCFA who can run large vessels. We can learn how to do it properly from our allies.
Business opportunity for Federal Fleet Services
Navy Could Sideline 17 Support Ships Due to Manpower Issues - USNI News
Military Sealift Command has drafted a plan to remove the crews from 17 Navy support ships due to a lack of qualified mariners to operate the vessels across the Navy, USNI News learned. The MSC “force generation reset” identified two Lewis and Clark replenishment ships, one fleet oiler, a dozen...news.usni.org
17 ships sidelined
12/14 Spearhead EPF/JHSV/TSV sidelined
2/4 Chesty Pulller ESB sidelined
2/14 Lewis and Clark T-AKE sidelined
1/15 T-AO Fleet Oiler sidelined
4500 Billets in the MSC fleet
1.27 Mariners for each billet available
2.00 Mariners required for each billet.
Business opportunity for Federal Fleet Services
Navy Could Sideline 17 Support Ships Due to Manpower Issues - USNI News
Military Sealift Command has drafted a plan to remove the crews from 17 Navy support ships due to a lack of qualified mariners to operate the vessels across the Navy, USNI News learned. The MSC “force generation reset” identified two Lewis and Clark replenishment ships, one fleet oiler, a dozen...news.usni.org
17 ships sidelined
12/14 Spearhead EPF/JHSV/TSV sidelined
2/4 Chesty Pulller ESB sidelined
2/14 Lewis and Clark T-AKE sidelined
1/15 T-AO Fleet Oiler sidelined
4500 Billets in the MSC fleet
1.27 Mariners for each billet available
2.00 Mariners required for each billet.
Early in 2023, the MoD purchased two former commercial vessels for the Naval Service. Despite their procurement ‘at pace’, RFA Proteus has yet to conduct any useful operations and RFA Stirling Castle is being laid up or ‘paused’ temporarily mainly due to a lack of qualified people to operate her.
RFA Stirling Castle was formally named at a ceremony held at Leith in April and so far has conducted some very limited trials with autonomous mine hunting boats in her intended role. Unfortunately, there was an incident with her 10-tonne deck crane which is no longer serviceable and repair will be a complex operation requiring removal from the ship. The crane is the only effective means to launch boats, rendering the ship inoperable in her primary role.
Since RFA Proteus was purchased in January 2023 she has spent most of her time in Cammell Laird shipyard (Jan-Sept 23, Dec-March 24, July 24 – present) or alongside in Devonport and Portland. She was supposed to enter service in the Summer of 2023 but this was wildly optimistic and she has yet to conduct any patrols of Critical Underwater Infrastructure as intended. The initial conversion took longer than expected, she then had to return to the yard for for hull certification. After two high-profile visits to London, she is now back in the shipyard.
Unconfirmed reports suggest FOST-mandated stop-start machinery drills upset equipment not intended to be operated that way and further slight damage was done to the ship by mistakes made during routine maintenance.