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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

What are we upto in fly away cost per ship? 1.2 billion? for a non combat ship of an existing design. Meanwhile south korea is pitching submarines at $900 million each...... almost as if we aren't getting value for our money locally.
to put in perspective though, that is the costs over the next 20 years or so, and not just the delivery cost?
 
Remember - jobs program with ships being a somewhat useful byproduct.
And the Halifax Skyline and the Young people populating it thank the NSS. Halifax has absolutely Boomed since that 2011 announcement.There have been at least 25-30 Construction Cranes above the City since 2012. Something about a many Decade National Commit to build stuff.
 
And the Halifax Skyline and the Young people populating it thank the NSS. Halifax has absolutely Boomed since that 2011 announcement.There have been at least 25-30 Construction Cranes above the City since 2012. Something about a many Decade National Commit to build stuff.
I doubt the NSS has that much much effect on the young population moving there. More has to do with high wages in other industries with work from home or FIFO. Somewhat lower hosing costs, and local government willing to allow building to happen.
I know lots of people who moved back there for the high wages and steady jobs being offered by Irving only to come back West for work. Lot of promises were not met nor honored by Irving.
The fact that the Canadian Government has been pouring money (50 mil here, 300mil over here, 100mil there and the list goes on) into Irving over the past 10-15 years is appalling that they still can not get any other major steady contracts. But the way they hemorrhage money makes bombardier look like amateurs.
 
Wow, that's a flashback to the samples coming off the 280 stripping system on the water compensated tanks, which was the oily water interface bit that usually had some MBGs. That was daily (twice a day?) routine for the upper deck stoker, along with a whole lot of other fuel husbandry steps so the actual fuel to the engines was pretty clean. Which is funny as they would have burned dirtier fuel anyway but they didn't last for 40+ years by accident.
Thing is, that's from the potable drinking water tanks, not the fuel tanks.
 
Nobody has enough AORs anymore.

I have (only half jokingly) suggested that if we had a Navy of 15 AORs and 2 destroyers, we would be of more value to NATO and the USN, than the other way around….
How about only building 8 or 10 CSCs (maybe even less if the manning isn't there), and building 4 Karel Doorman's in addition to the 2 Berlin's.

They are for all intents the JSS we thought we wanted. Tanking spots on both sides, two helo spots capable of up to Chinook, 6 helos in the hangar, 2000 lane meters and a both roll on / roll off plus a steel beach with boats (but no space eating well deck), good medical facilities, can embark roughly a company.

Not only an AOR, but can concentrate the helos for higher intensity helo ops, and perfect for HADR.
 
Thing is, that's from the potable drinking water tanks, not the fuel tanks.
Wow, that's nuts. Apparently the Abraham had gotten contaminated with bilge water as well.

Potalbe water on ships is one area we are really cautious on, and may go overboard on the decontamination procedures, but I'm okay with that. (Still can't believe the AOPV situation, and we basically accepted the PMO just eating it from ISI and not fixing it).

https://news.usni.org/2023/05/17/pr...board-carriers-uss-nimitz-uss-abraham-lincoln
 
How about only building 8 or 10 CSCs (maybe even less if the manning isn't there), and building 4 Karel Doorman's in addition to the 2 Berlin's.

They are for all intents the JSS we thought we wanted. Tanking spots on both sides, two helo spots capable of up to Chinook, 6 helos in the hangar, 2000 lane meters and a both roll on / roll off plus a steel beach with boats (but no space eating well deck), good medical facilities, can embark roughly a company.

Not only an AOR, but can concentrate the helos for higher intensity helo ops, and perfect for HADR.
12 CSC and 3 of these, that leaves one per coast and one in refit at any one time.
 
to put in perspective though, that is the costs over the next 20 years or so, and not just the delivery cost?
I think thats the actual cost might even be low?

 
@suffolkowner It's pretty typical for in service to be about 2-3 times acquisition costs. It does go up pretty steeply when you get past end of life, or if you have one off pieces of equipment no one else uses. The cost for special orders and retooling (if you can get it) is a pretty high premium as well as large quantities.

They did leave out that the acquisition costs includes training, infrastructure and contingency, as well as IP and TDP. None of those are insignificant, but no point buying a ship that no one knows how to operate or maintain and no jetty to support it.

The AJISS cost estimate is an absolute rectal pluck, as they wanted us to guess at ship disposal costs 40 years out when the design was still up in the air. I think we put down $50M or something per ship, which was assuming the environmental cleanup and demil costs will be offset by scrap value, as well as inflation not going through the roof. But in 2060 or whatever it was $50M might get you a coffee, so who knows.
 
Just curious, no idea if it's feasible, what if they were to add 60m to the middle/rear of an AOR hull? Ice capable limited sea lift? it is a fairly wide vessel.
 
Just curious, no idea if it's feasible, what if they were to add 60m to the middle/rear of an AOR hull? Ice capable limited sea lift? it is a fairly wide vessel.
So, what if they were to scrap the current design completely, Frankenstein it, and see how well it floats and fights?
 
Just curious, no idea if it's feasible, what if they were to add 60m to the middle/rear of an AOR hull? Ice capable limited sea lift? it is a fairly wide vessel.
can’t be done without a whole new ship design from super structure, to propulsion, to storage and layout. Even anchors, cables, bearings, machinery, propellor size, shaft size, number of screws, bulkhead, HVAC, electrical generation and distribution would all change substantially.
 
can’t be done without a whole new ship design from super structure, to propulsion, to storage and layout. Even anchors, cables, bearings, machinery, propellor size, shaft size, number of screws, bulkhead, HVAC, electrical generation and distribution would all change substantially.
Oh well, just a question. I just saw the present hull on a LHD type as advantageous to taking it into northern waters. Many more options exist for deploying land forces with a ship than via C130 or C17.
 
Oh well, just a question. I just saw the present hull on a LHD type as advantageous to taking it into northern waters. Many more options exist for deploying land forces with a ship than via C130 or C17.
AOR is a very different role than a landing ship. I would like to see a LST type vessel, mainly for domestic northern ops, manned mainly by Fleet Auxiliary. I do wish we had gotten the two Mistrals that had been offered to us. It would have changed how the RCN operates and what it could do. The LST would cost you one of the Kingston replacements, but a Mistral type landing ship will definitely cost you a CSC
 
Oh well, just a question. I just saw the present hull on a LHD type as advantageous to taking it into northern waters. Many more options exist for deploying land forces with a ship than via C130 or C17.
I mean with flight delays and/or straight up no shows, probably be faster to deploy troops via ship anyways.
 
AOR is a very different role than a landing ship. I would like to see a LST type vessel, mainly for domestic northern ops, manned mainly by Fleet Auxiliary. I do wish we had gotten the two Mistrals that had been offered to us. It would have changed how the RCN operates and what it could do. The LST would cost you one of the Kingston replacements, but a Mistral type landing ship will definitely cost you a CSC

US Marines are mucking around with this variant of the OSV - The Stern Landing Vessel (are we not amused).

1708206442084.png

The OSV platform seems to be attracting a fair amount of attention as a viable base for development of both crewed and uncrewed vessels.
 
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