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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

Underway said:
Well, it isn't easy.

Define capability. In most categories, the JSS has more or ones that didn't exist at all on PROTECTEUR (the first one as JSS one is also called PROTECTEUR).

The Bonn magazine standards are not military-grade, the cooling system can't go into tropical waters, its German communication suite can't do what we need it to do in a TG, and it doesn't have CIWS. It can't operate a helicopter within RCN safety standards, nor did it have the ability to store and load torpedos on a helicopter. There is little to no emissions security so red processing is a no-no. Its halyard access is located in a RADHAZ zone and it has no EMS (ITD is very difficult). Its power was European not NA. The engines and generators that it used are no longer built. It's cabling is a European standard, not NA which means cable changes. I could go on for a couple of pages just on requirements that are not even held by the RCN.

And of course, we're getting a ship built by a shipyard that has never done this before, who is designing and building at the same time (its own challenges) due to time constraints in a COVID environment.

What you think we should have bought and what we did buy are not the same thing.

If you want to argue that we bought the wrong thing, or the requirements were written incorrectly then I would likely agree with you. But the requirements were written by the RCN or imposed on us by outside organizations, and JSS is going to deliver on them.
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I'm not discounting what you're saying, but if we (RCN and GoC) had pulled their heads out or their asses in the 90's we would be on year 20 of having this thing in the water and operational by now.
 
The spaces in those blocks are stores, canteen, plenty of fuel tanks, the ammo magazines/transfer, pump room and most important of them all.... beer and pop stores 🍻
 
How to get a big support ship at a reasonable price:

Damen lays keel for new RNLN support ship​


Damen Shipyards held a keel-laying ceremony for the Royal Netherlands Navy's (RNLN's) new combat support ship (CSS) at its yard in Galati, Romania, on 2 June.

Under current planning the new ship, to be called HNLMS Den Helder, will be handed over to the RNLN in 2025.

Although construction of the CSS is taking place at Damen's Galati facility, design and engineering activities were largely carried out in the Netherlands. Construction is expected to be completed in 2023, after which the ship will sail to the Netherlands for final outfitting in Den Helder. This will include installation of the combat management system and self-defence weapons [emphasis added].

The CSS is based on the same design as the RNLN's joint support ship (JSS) HNLMS Karel Doorman, but smaller and without a sealift capability.

Displacing around 22,400 tonnes fully loaded and with an overall length of 180 m, it will have a crew complement of 75, with accommodation for an additional 85 on board. The vessel will have two replenishment at-sea rigs and, in addition to space for fuel and munition to supply other ships, will be able to carry approximately 20 containers as deck cargo. It will also feature a helicopter deck and hangar and will carry two fast, raiding, interception, and special forces craft and two rigid-hull inflatable boats.
damen.jpg

Damen lays keel for new RNLN support ship

Damen Shipyards held a keel-laying ceremony for the Royal Netherlands Navy's (RNLN's) new combat support ship (CSS) at its yard in Galati, Romania, on 2 June.
www.janes.com www.janes.com
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Mark Collins
 
dapaterson said:
Somewhere on each of those engines is a miniscule valve that is positioned in just the wrong location so that every time it needs manual adjustment there will be a litany of cursing by the engineering department.
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So serious question because I know schmick about this. What happens if an engine catastrophically fails, and can't be rebuilt? Do we cut a hole in the side of the JSS?
 
Weinie said:
So serious question because I know schmick about this. What happens if an engine catastrophically fails, and can't be rebuilt? Do we cut a hole in the side of the JSS?
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A similar thing happened on a big Stator on the one of the ice breakers built here in the 80's, it failed during sea trials and it was 6 months for the company in Germany to make a new one, cut a hole in the side and switch them out. Like the video below

 
Colin Parkinson said:
A similar thing happened on a big Stator on the one of the ice breakers built here in the 80's, it failed during sea trials and it was 6 months for the company in Germany to make a new one, cut a hole in the side and switch them out. Like the video below
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Cool! Although I was disappointed not to see the welding it close…, 😔
 
Weinie said:
So serious question because I know schmick about this. What happens if an engine catastrophically fails, and can't be rebuilt? Do we cut a hole in the side of the JSS?
Click to expand...

After a fire on board HMCS Toronto, we required an entire gas turbine replacement (the fire never left the GT enclosure). This was done with a large crane and pulling the engine out through the stack, as well as putting the new one in through the same stack.

That being said it is not uncommon to make a "cutout" in the side of or top of the ship to place or remove equipment. The diesel generator replacement for the frigates required this exact thing. Sometimes you can break down and build, but other times it just easier and cheaper to cut and paste.
 
Underway said:
After a fire on board HMCS Toronto, we required an entire gas turbine replacement (the fire never left the GT enclosure). This was done with a large crane and pulling the engine out through the stack, as well as putting the new one in through the same stack.

That being said it is not uncommon to make a "cutout" in the side of or top of the ship to place or remove equipment. The diesel generator replacement for the frigates required this exact thing. Sometimes you can break down and build, but other times it just easier and cheaper to cut and paste.
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Underway,

Thanks for the insight. I was uncertain to what degree you could do "surgery" on a ship, and then sail her back into battle. Much appreciated.
 
Weinie said:
Underway,

Thanks for the insight. I was uncertain to what degree you could do "surgery" on a ship, and then sail her back into battle. Much appreciated.
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No probs. The engineering spaces are generally the entire width of the ship, so if you can get them in drydock it's just a matter of cutting off the hull plate and then replacing it when you are done. It's the same principle with putting up new drywall after tearing down the old stuff. Just do your weld inspections and good to go.

For some spaces on the frigate, there are removable panels in the deck/deckhead. This allows you to unbolt the panel, remove it, and then move equipment that is too large to fit through hatches. Something as mundane as a large office printer or pop machine can't fit down a hatch very well.
 
The Danes have done something very clever with their engineering. If one of the engines require replacement on an ABSALON, there are rails built in over the engineering spaces that hoists can run on. They go all the way to the service elevator and allow access to flex deck. That way, the engine gets picked up, trundled off and swapped out without any holes or fuss.
 
The engines are in place.
E6HMF7wX0AM89RK
 
Maxman1 said:
The engines are in place.
E6HMF7wX0AM89RK
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Those do not look very large compared to the workers next to them. Is that just my imagination, or is there more to come, or are these just more efficient engines being put in these days?

🍻
 
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