AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[calculus]

Saab to Deliver Radars for Royal Canadian Navy's Joint Support Ships. Sea Giraffe AMB will form part of the command management system for the new ships. Saab will undertake the work in Gothenburg, Sweden and Halifax, Canada with deliveries between 2020 and 2022.

http://www.canadiandefencereview.com/news?news/2650

Is it my imagination, or is this an unusually capable radar for an AOR?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't know why we would be abandoning the four-stations (two masts per side) set-up. It is so much more flexible as an arrangement.

I have in mind a fairly recent picture that was on the RCN web site (but can't find it right now (taken down?). It showed one of our frigate operating with the RAN. She was fuelling on the port side of the RAN current AOR (based on the French Durance class) while a RAN ANZAC class was fuelling on the starboard. Our frigate was fuelling from the  port-forward mast while the Australian ship was fuelling from the starboard-aft mast. But both warships were level on either side.

This means that the ANZAC fuelling point is much further aft than a HAL's one. Had there been single mast on either side, you either would have one of the two ships (the ANZAC) further ahead - creating unbalanced forces on the AOR, and thus an unstable situation - or would only be able to have one refuel at a time. In other words, two masts restricts you to ships with reasonably the same set-up at each time if you want to refuel on both sides. That's just one more consideration in setting up the rotation that could easily be avoided by simply having four masts. Four masts means more flexibility when working with various partners instead of just your own Navy.

Is there really a big cost increase in having four instead of two? I don't think so.

It's also great for redundancy; there are a lot of moving parts, cables and hoses that could go wrong and take a station down. Less of a concern if you have two per side, and we've got a track record of doing the bare minimum at times to get ships to sea, so wouldn't be surprised to see a JSS leave with two 'workingish' stations and have a series of events leaving them unable to RAS. Also, our own ships have their own issues, and sometimes you head out only able to RAS on one side, so can be a challenge all around if the AOR can supply on one side.

 

[Underway]

Little old... engine supplier info

https://nss.seaspan.com/featured-news/man-energy-solutions-canada-to-provide-engines-for-the-joint-support-ships/

 

[Stoker]

Hepburn Engineering secures contract to provide replenishment systems for Canada’s Joint Support Ships
Toronto-based company to provide Replenishment-at-Sea systems for the Royal Canadian Navy’s new Joint Support Ships

NORTH VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Aug. 13, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Seaspan Shipyards (Seaspan) is pleased to announce that it has awarded Hepburn Engineering Inc. (Hepburn) of Toronto, ON, a contract for work on Canada’s new Joint Support Ships.

Hepburn will provide four Replenishment Stations for the Joint Support Ships, which will allow the vessels to transfer fuel, fresh water, and solid goods to and from other vessels. These Replenishment-at-Sea (RAS) systems will be fully compatible with NATO standards, thereby allowing the JSS to resupply and refuel Canadian and allied task force ships at sea, considerably extending their range of operations.

Hepburn is recognized as a world leader in the development, design and manufacture of RAS systems and has the most advanced digital control systems on the market. Hepburn is 100% Canadian owned and operated and has been providing these systems to navies worldwide for over half a century. As the only Canadian company designing and supplying such systems, Hepburn has built a global reputation based on the safety, performance, reliability, durability and ease of use of the equipment. This contract will support and sustain the creation of high quality mechanical, electrical and software engineering jobs here in Canada as well as highly skilled Canadian manufacturing jobs.

With its work under the NSS, Seaspan has issued more than $935M in committed contracts to approximately 630 Canadian companies. By building ships for the Canadian Coast Guard (CCG) and the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) in Canada, Seaspan is helping to re-establish a sustainable marine industry here. As the company continues to make progress on its NSS commitments, this supply chain will grow as more Canadian companies realize new opportunities with a revitalized shipbuilding industry. It is through its work on the NSS that Seaspan is directly and indirectly helping to employ thousands of Canadians from coast to coast.

QUOTES

“This contract award is helping Seaspan Shipyards meet its economic benefit obligations to Canada on the Joint Support Ships Contract. The Industrial and Technological Benefits Policy helps create jobs and foster economic growth by requiring the company to undertake high value-added business activities and investments in Canada equal to the value of their contract.”

The Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility

“The partnership between Seaspan Shipyards and Hepburn Engineering demonstrates how defence procurement supports the growth of our innovative small and medium businesses. This investment will create good jobs for Canadians while providing the Royal Canadian Navy with the tools they need to succeed.”

The Honourable Navdeep Bains, Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development

“Seaspan Shipyards is pleased to announce a major contract award for Hepburn Engineering to provide the Replenishment-at-Sea systems for the Joint Support Ships. The work taking place at Hepburn is indicative of the world class standard of products and services that Canadian companies are able to competitively deliver as part of the broader shipbuilding industry. As a result of contract awards like these the National Shipbuilding Strategy is creating well-paid, highly skilled jobs and supporting economic growth from coast to coast.”

Mark Lamarre, Chief Executive Officer, Seaspan Shipyards

“On behalf of Hepburn Engineering Inc. I am pleased to announce that we will be providing the Replenishment-at-Sea systems for the Royal Canadian Navy’s new Joint Support Ships currently under construction at Seaspan’s Vancouver Shipyards. Hepburn has been the supplier of RAS equipment to the Canadian Navy for more than 50 years. Hepburn is proud to be a 100% Canadian owned and operated company with a reputation for providing quality replenishment systems to navies around the world.”

John Hepburn, President, Hepburn Engineering Inc.

QUICK FACTS

    Seaspan operates three yards with a combined workforce of over 2,300 people across its yards in North Vancouver & Victoria.
    To date, Seaspan has awarded over $935M in contracts to approximately 630 Canadian companies.
    Hepburn Engineering, based in Toronto, has been providing solids, liquids and dual solids/liquids RAS systems to navies worldwide for over 50 years.
    Hepburn has been the supplier of RAS equipment and support services to the Royal Canadian Navy for more than 50 years.


https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/08/13/1901340/0/en/Hepburn-Engineering-secures-contract-to-provide-replenishment-systems-for-Canada-s-Joint-Support-Ships.html

 

[Spencer100]

That contract was kind of a given.  Lol

Did they even bother to get three quotes

 

[Colin Parkinson]

who made the Resolve RAS systems?

 

[Spencer100]

who made the Resolve RAS systems?

Same company.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Same as the old AORs as well.  Hepburn did the overhauls up until the end of service, so should be pretty comfortable to operate for anyone with tanker time.  Was glad to see this one went their way.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Looks like the Germans are building a new set of AOR's for their fleet.

Our Berlin Class plans are now looking a little long in the tooth.... Also, a civilian crew, where have we heard this before?  Wiki states that the Berlin class has a crew of 139?

"The German Navy has identified plans for the acquisition of its next-generation Type 707 Fleet Oilers – the two vessels will have a length of 170 metres, with an increased capacity, being able to carry 15,000 cubic metres of fuel. An option for the embarkation of up to 20 containers is also included. The new fleet tankers will also have a civilian crew. However, the size of the crew will decrease from 42 to around 20 people. The two double-hull tanker vessels type 707 are planned to stay in service with the German Navy fleet beyond the 2050s"

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The type 707 are not AOR's, they are AO's. In other words, purely tankers. And they do not replace the Berlin class but the old type 704 tankers.

Here's a reference: https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2019/july/7323-german-navy-has-approved-the-acquisition-of-two-new-ship-tankers-type-707.html

 

[Gorgo]

Any construction photos of the new AORs come out yet?

 

[Spencer100]

I don't think there is much yet.  Pieces of steels and assemblies.  I don't even think the final contract has been inked with Seaspan yet. (Could very much be wrong). I

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Any construction photos of the new AORs come out yet?

The Seaspan website has a series of progress photos from last year upto March this year.

 

[Spencer100]

Pieces of steal. 

 

[Spencer100]

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/halifax/canadas-stopgap-supply-ship-mv-asterix-pumped-a-lot-of-gas-during-500-day-deployment-345747/?fbclid=IwAR1aoOp0WQTAjgcbpwJBHl_VrMYtIOZk3FpP2uQZnS03lttsBujUmqQkcAQ


FYI

 

[Underway]

She sure did.  If there were awards on number of nations supplied and amount of fuel supplied that ship would hold quite a few of them.  Soft power indeed.  BZ Asterix and all of her various crews!

 

[Stoker]

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/halifax/canadas-stopgap-supply-ship-mv-asterix-pumped-a-lot-of-gas-during-500-day-deployment-345747/?fbclid=IwAR1aoOp0WQTAjgcbpwJBHl_VrMYtIOZk3FpP2uQZnS03lttsBujUmqQkcAQ


FYI

Wasn't Asterix back to Esquimalt once or twice in that "500" day deployment with multiple crew changes.

 

[Underway]

Wasn't Asterix back to Esquimalt once or twice in that "500" day deployment with multiple crew changes.

There were swap outs in a few places for both military and civilian crews. 

 

[Stoker]

There were swap outs in a few places for both military and civilian crews.

Yes and they were in Equimalt at least once or twice during the time away. I was wondering where this 500 day deployment number comes from. The way it sounds they were away for 500 days which they weren't, perhaps away from Halifax?

 

[NavyShooter]

It's 500 days more at sea than anything that ISI has produced under NSPS...

And, for clarity, 500 days ago is Monday April 16th, 2018, so I suspect that they're counting the deployment time as their time away from their home port of Halifax.  That's not 500 days at sea, that's 500 days away from home port.  Seeing as the MV Asterix departed on 11 April 2018, it was 502 days.

In the same way that when I went to Libya in 2011, it was a 6 month deployment- we left on 02 Mar, and got back on 02 Sep.  That was 6 months.  During that time, we were alongside for about 10-12 port visits - roughly one every two weeks or so, with a longer RAMP in the middle.

Did we deduct those days from our deployment?  Not likely.