Anyone into simulators IE: Aircraft or Armoured
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Michael Dorosh
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RecceDG said:I'm going to pick it up too, but I'm going to wait and see how the early adopters make out. "T72-Balkans on Fire" looked good on screenshots, but in actuality - not so much.
I did buy a new joystick though.
DG
BFC posted an updated demo to T-72 - I haven't tried either, but apprently the second demo was much better than the first.
Unless you're talking about the second demo and it still sucked.
Personally, I am awaiting Operation Flashpoint 2...or whatever it is called this week.
Back to SB - I am looking around the forums and FAQs - will the game ship with a scenario and map editor? One with an interface easily used? The OFP mission editor was fairly okay to use but to make your own map you needed a Ph.D and the ability to read Czech....
http://www.esimgames.com/sbproterrainvariety.htm
This page seems kind of ambiguous as to whether the SB Pro PE will allow user-defined terrain.
My understanding (keep in mind I don't work for them) is that it will come with a map and scenario editor, much the same way that SB1 did.
The only thing that cannot be edited are the elevation maps. You can select from a bunch of provided height maps and then paint the terrain features (roads, water, trees) onto them.
I've asked if there will be a procedure provided to generate height maps from the government terrain survey database info (that's where they are generating the maps from) but got no answer yet.
Height maps are already generated for Canadian training areas, as well as American training areas, and a bunch of other areas of interest. Those will be provided either on the game CD or online later.
Full-bore maps (height plus terrain) are already done for some training areas (29 Palms, Ft Hood) and are in progress for other areas as well, including Gagetown etc.
Incidently, the artillery model has been changed so that you can play FOO in a FIST-V, with appropriate fire missions by either grid and adjust, or radial using the FIST-V laser. This means you can do the same sort of arty traing as you do in the simulators currently at the arty units....
Assuming it's not as buggy as all hell, this should make for a great training aid - and the fact that it is an extension of the SB1 codebase gives me great hope.
DG
The only thing that cannot be edited are the elevation maps. You can select from a bunch of provided height maps and then paint the terrain features (roads, water, trees) onto them.
I've asked if there will be a procedure provided to generate height maps from the government terrain survey database info (that's where they are generating the maps from) but got no answer yet.
Height maps are already generated for Canadian training areas, as well as American training areas, and a bunch of other areas of interest. Those will be provided either on the game CD or online later.
Full-bore maps (height plus terrain) are already done for some training areas (29 Palms, Ft Hood) and are in progress for other areas as well, including Gagetown etc.
Incidently, the artillery model has been changed so that you can play FOO in a FIST-V, with appropriate fire missions by either grid and adjust, or radial using the FIST-V laser. This means you can do the same sort of arty traing as you do in the simulators currently at the arty units....
Assuming it's not as buggy as all hell, this should make for a great training aid - and the fact that it is an extension of the SB1 codebase gives me great hope.
DG
Michael Dorosh
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Yeah, the website says that importing heights will be available to military buyers but not the Pro PE version - thanks for info, did not realize we would not get a chance to change the heights at all. Guess I'll wait and see if Combat Mission: Shock Force isn't more to my liking - it promises more moddability and definitely a lower sticker price (though it will not be a sim but a tactical WEGO game).
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Holy cow Slim. They were supposed to ship on the 23rd. You posted before midnight on the 23rd asking what's up. Your deaing with Canada Post here. If you haven't heard anything after a week and a half or so, go ahead and question it, but less than 24 hrs? Teleportation is not really a reality yet. Even when it is, it'll still be a week before Canada Post gets off it's ass to put it in the chamber. Patience my son, the disc won't degrade. If you need to kill something that bad, there's still the .22, a flashlight, and a local dump full of rats. ;D
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It's too bad I didn't read this (when is it shipped/released) yesterday, as I was talking face to face with Nils Hinrichssen of eSim games, as he was here in Gagetown showing off SB2Pro for the Simulation Symposium that was going on. He would have known if there were going to be any delays (which, face it, happens with every piece of software as they try to send them out complete and bug free).
I may have to invest in the PE version, as I've played with the full version, and it is quite nice. The extra cost for the full military version ($1800 US) is justified from a training point of view, but aren't neccesary for "casual" users (if you want to call someone who spends $125 on a "game" a casual user).
If anybody needs some assistance (or perhaps scenarios (not sure if they will work, due to maps, extras) that I have access to) give me a PM. I can't give out stuff that is "paid" for by CF, but there are a lot things made by fan-boys, and "unofficial" ones created by military pers.
Have fun,
Al
I may have to invest in the PE version, as I've played with the full version, and it is quite nice. The extra cost for the full military version ($1800 US) is justified from a training point of view, but aren't neccesary for "casual" users (if you want to call someone who spends $125 on a "game" a casual user).
If anybody needs some assistance (or perhaps scenarios (not sure if they will work, due to maps, extras) that I have access to) give me a PM. I can't give out stuff that is "paid" for by CF, but there are a lot things made by fan-boys, and "unofficial" ones created by military pers.
Have fun,
Al
Michael Dorosh
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http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=019215;p=1
Yes, it has shipped.
Yes, it has shipped.
Michael Dorosh
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I hope anyone that gets it will post their reactions here.
I'd be encouraged to hear that things like dismounting to recce on foot were also included.
I'd be encouraged to hear that things like dismounting to recce on foot were also included.
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Michael Dorosh said:
This is based on my impressions of the Pro version that I have been toying with, but there is NO dismounted ability in SB2Pro (and likely the lite versions). This is, IMO, a hugely limiting factor in employing it beyond what, arguably, is it's key function: an armour sim. We (the Armour Corps) still have to maintain tank tactics for the short term (while we have Leo's) and then evolve to whatever we will call DF unit tactics (likely "tank tactics" even though it won't neccesarily be in tanks, proper). SB2Pro will work, very capably IMO, for this purpose, but due to the lack of dismounts, will have very limited capabilities for Coyote or G-Wagon recce. Nils Hinrichssen said that they are looking at bringing in polygon dismounts to replace sprite based (geek speak, but means 3D vs 2D) models for the dismounts. At the moment, the dismounts (for inf sections and for dismounts from Bradleys) are only able to be AI controlled (AFAIK), and the AI for them, the last time I looked, was less than stellar.
From the last time that I used SB2Pro in any depth (prior to Xmas), there have been a lot of improvements, as eSims, like any good company, listens to their audience, and makes improvements. Having said that, if people don't ask for (read as: pay for) things, such as dismounts, UAV's, helo's, etc, the company isn't going to take the time to develop something. And based on what Nils mentioned, the dismount ability won't be at the level of, say VBS or BF2, or similiar games/sims. Again, because it is designed as an armoured sim.
IMO, SB has a somewhat limited audience (mech warfare) and it does it very well. The gunnery aspect of it is very close to the high fidelity simulators that we use, especially if you have the money to buy the extras, such as realistic power controllers for the gunnery controls, but they run around $2000 for very close to identical to the real thing (a 3rd party company that caters to dedicated enthusiasts I imagine), down to $50 for a Saitek Evo joystick, which does the job. It depends on your budget, and how close you want to replicate the "experience" (BTW, the $50 joystick is more than suitable). Oh yeah: add in a 3D visor (virtual reality helmet) for about $1000 and you are only missing the smell of cordite (and the farts from your gunner after ingesting cordite).
If you have the money, and want to do the dismount thing very well, off the shelf, look at VBS1, which starts at $150, and then pick the add on modules you want or need. VBS2 is coming out within the next 12 months (or so my spies tell me 8) ) but it will cost ~$600 US for the "base" model, and whether it is sold to the general public is not yet known to me, but it will feature a lot of the extra's that are similar from the VBS1 platform built into it, so in reality (from a mass purchase angle) will likely be cheaper per license.
The good news, if you are into holding your breath and hoping for the best, is that sim's like SB2Pro and/or VBS1 (or VBS2) may be purchased as an enterprise license, so, in theory, if you are a crewman (Reg F or Res), you would receive your very own copy of the sim to use for training. The USMC did this with Close Combat: First to Fight (they distributed 60000 copies to their marines) and if the powers that be want it (ie are willing to spend the money) it shall be so. The beauty behind this mentality is that you will have soldiers training all the time, at work, at home, on deployment, wherever, without having to book simulator time. And with Generation XBox joining the CF now, you know that soldiers will do all this training willingly. Will this (the purchase) happen? My crystal ball is in at the FCS shop for recalibration, but even I, the eternal pessimist, am cautiously optimistic that it could happen, as the reality is that it is dirt cheap (even with the costs of purchasing hardware) compared to "real" training, which face it, is too little, too late usually, or even worse, no training (in terms of potential lives lost).
Anyway, take my thoughts for what they are worth, but based on the enthusiasm at high levels that I have seen, don't be surprised if some variation of what I mentioned actually ends up happening.
Al
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Michael Dorosh
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WebAddict said:
Do you mean as a pilot? Cause I can't think of any other Air Force trades you can simulate on a computer, though MSE Op (a purple trade??) can sorta be done with Operation Flashpoint, though not in any realistic way...
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Well, first of all, I think you'd rather an air force simulation game rather than an army one in that case. The only thing I can think of are flight sims, if you plan on becoming a pilot. I imagine they can help, although very slightly. At the very least, you'll do better on the aircraft recognition test.
Lock On: Modern Air Combat
That's a pretty good game, although for some reason I have difficulty running it on my comp.
Lock On: Modern Air Combat
That's a pretty good game, although for some reason I have difficulty running it on my comp.
OK, quickie Steel Beasts Pro PE Review (more detail to follow later)
- MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT: No crewable LAV-25. It's in the game (and it is gorgeous) but you can't drive or gun it (yet)
- Crewable: Leo 1A5 (yay!) Leo 2A4, Leo 2A5, M1A1, Bradley, M113, HUMMV
- Graphics are freakin' unbelievable! The screenshots don't do it justice. Absolutely amazing and immersive. On my laptop (P4 3.2 Ghz, GeForce 5700Go, 1Gb RAM) I was getting framerates between 19 and 50 FPS
- Sound is VERY much better too.
- Thermal sights now VERY realistic, not invincible super-sights. Daysights are much more useful now
- Tons of in-game models, probably another 20 vehicles
- Now necessary to reload ready racks from hull storage. Yurk!
- Map screens much better, more realistic
- Uses actual terrain maps, but no Canadian yet (in development) not on game CD
Major, major, major upgrade. Highly recommended!
DG
- MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT: No crewable LAV-25. It's in the game (and it is gorgeous) but you can't drive or gun it (yet)
- Crewable: Leo 1A5 (yay!) Leo 2A4, Leo 2A5, M1A1, Bradley, M113, HUMMV
- Graphics are freakin' unbelievable! The screenshots don't do it justice. Absolutely amazing and immersive. On my laptop (P4 3.2 Ghz, GeForce 5700Go, 1Gb RAM) I was getting framerates between 19 and 50 FPS
- Sound is VERY much better too.
- Thermal sights now VERY realistic, not invincible super-sights. Daysights are much more useful now
- Tons of in-game models, probably another 20 vehicles
- Now necessary to reload ready racks from hull storage. Yurk!
- Map screens much better, more realistic
- Uses actual terrain maps, but no Canadian yet (in development) not on game CD
Major, major, major upgrade. Highly recommended!
DG
