Another report of WMDs found in Iraq

[Infanteer]

I got burned last time when Colin Powell lied to the UN about WMD.

Powell never lied - although he was suspect of some of the information that was given to him, I don't doubt his integrity.  Woodward's interviews with him are pretty revealing.

I think your expectations of intelligence and the blame on the Administration is unfair.

Blame?  What are you trying to spin here.  They were wrong and the President admitted the fact - I'm only stating the historical record.  Yes, Saddam was deceptive with the UN, but it doesn't change the fact that many in the Bush administration saw a "smoking gun" with what many were, even at the time, saying was pretty shaky evidence at best.

Not that I give a shit; WMD doesn't make or break the morality or utility of the war in Iraq for me.  I just find it funny that there is an attempt to revisit an issue that the book has been closed on.

 

[mover1]

The source is FOX NEWS so I dont put any wieght into the story they tell.

They are a piss poor newscaster, facts are wrong and views are one sided. Much like the CBC :blotto:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And since it said degraded, it means almost useless, as chemical and biological weapons have a shelf life of around 10 years or less.

And once more, when you get all your experience from a book and 'google', instead of life, these are the kind of hokey, gobly gook statements you end up making. :

 

[Infanteer]

As a bit of closure, here is something from a good discussion on the topic at Lightfighter by "Abu Buckwheat":

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5131022531/m/8171025642

Originally posted by Abu Buckwheat:

worst part of reading all of this is it sounds like the WMD found doesn't count for some of you because it wasn't used effectively, or intentionally, or it wasn't of a specific grade.

First, no one is being glib here, however, the facts aren't going to change here amongst us expressing our varied opinions on LF.  Like jscustis says "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...Even if you win, you're still retarded. "  (I love that tag line)  This discussion is about thought, discovery and learning, not infighting and arguing, thats for the Team Room.

Last September the President said there are no WMDs in Iraq.   The DoD or the Senate Intelligence Committee did not support the assertion yesterday made by Senator Santorum. 

The Iraqis popped tens of thousands of rounds of Mustard, VX, Tabun, Lewsite, Phosgene and binary VX that were thrown at the Iranians and which killed tens of thousands of them.   They had an arsenal of conventional weapons which had hundreds of thousands of artillery rounds in stock.  So we expected some stray rounds to crop up in this stockpile.  However, No, this does not constitute what we went in to find. The President made hisstatement because the ISG/CIA said "ISG has not found evidence that Saddam Husayn  possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but the available evidence from its investigation—including detainee interviews and document exploitation—leaves open the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq although not of a militarily significant capability."

If I can point to old WMD munitons found in my DC neighborhood from WWI and that you can still find Mustard rounds in the French countryside then you can see why the DoD is so cool about this claim as "We found it."

This discussion is not about politics anymore or believing in the WMD mission started the war -that debate is over because despite the best efforts of the entire US Army and Marines no active WMD program was found, no stockpiles were found and that none apart from the IZ-IR War are in evidence. 

We have found old Iran-Iraq war vintage CW munitions but we know all about the pre-1991 stockpiles and usage - we watched them use it almost daily between 1982-1989 praying the Iranians would not win.  They didn't and CW helped. Nothing new there. 

The argument many make about what they had is akin to saying a SWAT team is sent into a home of a former Class III FFL holder to find 500 .50 cal MGs and only finds a few old gun parts from his former job.  Yes gun parts, but no massive cache = no success.  We can and have been wrong before.  This is most likely one of those times. 

If WMDs DO exist they will pop up, you can't really hide them - too tempting to trade for cash.  There is nothing I could not buy in Iraq if I had enough dollars ... and weekly I was offered "Kemical Booms!" including that old scam "Red Mercury!" 

Syria has their own WMD program that has been active since the Russians helped them build it in the 1970s so they didn't need it - they have LOTS of fresh WMD ... so maybe Hussein didn't lie but was bluffing.  Well the joke is on him.

So lets the facts speak for themselves and get on with the mission. Thats the mission now, AQ hunt, not WMD hunt.

 

[George Wallace]

Resurrecting this old thread.

Some questions come to mind when reports of ISIS using Mustard Gas on Kurds in the North.  Where did ISIS get their hands on these weapons?  Were they always there, after all?  Or were the facilities to produce them still in existence and never destroyed?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Mustard gas used in ISIS attack, Germany says
CBC
The Associated Press
Posted: Sep 07, 2015 5:55 PM ET
Last Updated: Sep 07, 2015 8:22 PM ET

Germany's foreign intelligence agency BND has collected evidence ISIS jihadists used mustard gas in an attack in Iraq, a German newspaper reported Monday.

BND intelligence agents collected blood samples from Kurds who were wounded in clashes with the jihadists, the German daily Bild reported Monday.

It quoted BND chief Gerhard Schindler as saying that the agency has "information that [ISIS] used mustard gas in northern Iraq."

Schindler told the paper the gas either came from old Iraqi stockpiles produced under Saddam Hussein's rule or was manufactured by ISIS after it seized the University of Mosul.

A senior German intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the matter publicly, confirmed the comments attributed to Schindler. He declined to confirm that the BND collected blood samples or discuss the agency's methods.

U.S. Defence Department spokeswoman Cmdr. Elissa Smith said "while we will not comment on intelligence or operational matters, let us be clear: any use by any party … of a chemical as a weapon of any kind is an abhorrent act."

"Given the alleged behaviour of ISIL and other such groups in the region, any such flagrant disregard for international standards and norms is reprehensible," Smith said, using an alternative name for the militant group.

Earlier attack

Activists said last month that ISIS attacked the northern Syrian town of Marea with poisonous gas although it was not clear whether chemical weapons were used.

Doctors Without Borders said four patients exhibiting symptoms of exposure to chemical agents were treated at a hospital run by international medical organization in northern Syria on Aug. 21.

It said the parents and their two daughters arrived at a hospital run by the group one hour after the attack, suffering from respiratory difficulties, inflamed skin, red eyes and conjunctivitis, and that their conditions worsened later.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights and Turkey-based activist Abu al-Hassan Marea said no independent confirmation of a chemical attack had been made.

© The Associated Press, 2015
The Canadian Press

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