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Another report of WMDs found in Iraq

muskrat89

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I know, I know.. been lots of these teasers that then disappear. The interesting thing is the AP released this the other day, and none of the big networks are even mentioning it. I guess the Rush and Arnold stories are more important. The jist of it is they caught $60million worth of chem and bio weapons being smuggled into Kuwait, which ultimately were destined for a European country

WMD Smuggling Plot
 
You gotta love these Stratfor reports:

www.stratfor.com


Iraq: Missile Discovery Strengthens U.S. Hand in U.N.
Oct 03, 2003

Summary

Polish troops claim to have discovered French -manufactured anti-aircraft missile systems in Iraq, produced in 2003, giving the United States a stick with which to beat the French in the U.N. Security Council.

Analysis

Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built anti-aircraft missiles that were built this year, Polish Defense Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak told Reuters Oct. 3. The troops found the Roland-type missiles in an ammunition depot near the region of Al Hillah, approximately 55 miles south of Baghdad, on Sept. 29, Mleczak said. The Roland anti-anticraft system is a short-range air defense missile used against aircraft flying at low and medium altitudes.

The discovery of the missiles will send sparks flying in both Washington and Paris. Iraq‘s possession of new anti-aircraft missiles doesn‘t necessarily mean that France sold them to Baghdad. Paris may have sold the weapons, although it has denied any such arms transfers, or they might have come from a third party that acquired the missiles from France and re-exported them. Washington will now want to know which country that was, and it will be breathing down Paris‘ neck for answer.

The timing of Poland‘s announcement may conveniently provide the United States with leverage to gain French cooperation on a new U.N. Security Council resolution, in which Washington seeks approval for a multinational force deployment in Iraq. U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Oct. 3 that the U.S. draft resolution would be revised and ready within the next two days for presentation to the Security Council. French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said recently that Paris would not approve the draft resolution unless a shorter timetable for a transfer of power to a sovereign Iraqi government was included.

The discovery of Roland missiles is not unusual. In the 1980s, Iraq imported large numbers of both the Roland-1 and Roland-2 short-range anti-aircraft missile systems. In the last several months, U.S and allied forces have found dozens of Roland missiles scattered throughout the country. The significance is that the Polish troops claim they found missiles manufactured in 2003 -- after it was blatantly clear the United States was going to war against Iraq. This means that one of the countries with access to the missiles knowingly helped the government in Baghdad prepare for war.

There are ten countries with Roland systems in service: Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, Iraq, Nigeria, Qatar, Spain, Venezuela and the United States. A French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman strongly denied that France has authorized any shipment of military equipment to Iraq since 1990. "It is not credible to say that the Roland missiles found a few days ago were produced in 2003 and delivered just before the Anglo-American intervention," the spokeswoman said. "Let‘s be absolutely clear about this: no military exports to Iraq were licensed after July 1990."

The discovery will not cause a complete breach of French-U.S. relations unless, of course, it is discovered that Paris did in fact sell the weapons to Iraq in early 2003 -- which is not impossible, but unlikely. What it will do is help the United States outflank France in the Security Council and further erode French global influence.
 
UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, June 11, 2004
The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters â “ the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.

"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.

 
I wonder if Saddam got into bed with his old enemies,Iran and shipped a whole bunch there?
Makes some of us want to gloat, no? :P
 
I was thinking back to a thread that someone else posted about 'inflateable armies'. One of the items on display was a full-size scud lancher that would look real enough from a satellite and could be taken down and set up within an hour( actually much quicker!)

I wonder if some of these 'devices' were used to fool the allies in both gulph wars? This is one of the 'dangers' of using SIGINT and IMINTwithout the HUMINT to go with it!! :-[

Slim
 
If I am not mistaken the SA-2 Guideline (or S-75 - the proper designation) is a surface to air guided missile, why is it considered a WMD? Does it have a limited ability to attack ground targets with several types of warheads?
 
Posted by: Bruce Monkhouse 
Insert Quote
I wonder if Saddam got into bed with his old enemies,Iran and shipped a whole bunch there?
Makes some of us want to 

Bruce, don't I recall that before and during Gulf 1 that Saddam sent his Air Force to Iran?  Just what is the nature of an enemy to whom you can send your Air Force for safe-keeping?

I wonder how long it takes CBC/CTV to report this?  Not holding my breath.

Cheers
 
By the way I just linked the info to CBC. 

Don't know what good it will do but I feel better.

TTFN.
 
The news of the scrap steel is old,a few months ago it was reported of strange items turning up in Holland and thats when the authorities were called in and it started the investigation into Iraqi scrap steel and where it was ending up.
As a matter of fact I think the CBC or PBS had a program about it not to long ago.
 
To tell you all the truth, I don't trust the United States current leadership at all and wouldn't DOUBT that they faked WMD in Iraq to have a reason to go to war. I wouldn't put it past them at all. Everyone also knows the CIA planted false paper trails+evidence of WMD.

I don't really like the US if anyone can figure that out yet...  :P

The only reason the US and Canada have such an alliance is because of NEED, not want. And I think that if the rest of the world wouldn't shit on thier heads for it, they'd take Canada over.
 
Recruit Joe said:
To tell you all the truth, I don't trust the United States current leadership at all and wouldn't DOUBT that they faked WMD in Iraq to have a reason to go to war. I wouldn't put it past them at all. Everyone also knows the CIA planted false paper trails+evidence of WMD.

I don't really like the US if anyone can figure that out yet...   :P

The only reason the US and Canada have such an alliance is because of NEED, not want. And I think that if the rest of the world wouldn't crap on thier heads for it, they'd take Canada over.
Regardless of what my opinion is on this subject, these kind of blanket statements are pretty dangerous.  Particularly the comment on the CIA and false paper trails.  What FACT are you basing this statement on?

Man, I'm starting to sound like a twisted and bitter university prof.
 
LOL. Not a bad idea to sound like an intelligent professor or teacher of any kind.

Well, the head of CIA retired himself, and it was ALL Over the news about the CIA making paper trails and falsifying documents. Bush wouldn't even comment on it if I remember correctly. It was all denied and all that but Britian found some evidence of the US giving them false information to convince them to join them against Iraq too. And I think that is what started the investigation...
 
Recruit Joe said:
LOL. Not a bad idea to sound like an intelligent professor or teacher of any kind.

Well, the head of CIA retired himself, and it was ALL Over the news about the CIA making paper trails and falsifying documents. Bush wouldn't even comment on it if I remember correctly. It was all denied and all that but Britian found some evidence of the US giving them false information to convince them to join them against Iraq too. And I think that is what started the investigation...

Joe

Try not to let school and the media do all of your thinking for you. Going with the crowd is not always the right thing to do!
 
Here is some "FACTS" for you my friend...

Also, go to Http://www.msn.ca
and type in the search box "CIA False" and a BIG list of all the stuff I was just talking about comes up, too much to list here...

CIA takes fall for Bush's claim on Iraq
Last Updated Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:26:44
ENTEBBE, UGANDA - The director of the CIA said Friday his agency was to blame for U.S. President George Bush's false claim that Iraq was seeking nuclear material from Africa.


President George W. Bush  

"Those 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the president," George Tenet said in a statement. "This was a mistake."

Tenet's statement was released shortly after U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice blamed the Central Intelligence Agancy for the claim in Bush's 2003 state of the union message.

"The CIA cleared the speech in its entirety," Rice told reporters aboard Air Force One on Friday.

Her comments came after Bush administration officials admitted Wednesday that a statement Bush made about Iraq trying to purchase uranium from Niger was based on forged documents.

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa," Bush said in the Jan. 28 address.

CIA met with British

In a related matter, The Washington Post reported Friday that the CIA tried unsuccessfully in September 2002 to persuade the British government to drop from an official intelligence paper a reference to Iraqi attempts to buy uranium in Africa.

A CIA official who went to the African nation to investigate the claim reported that it was highly doubtful such a transaction ever took place.

British officials learned of those doubts before the allegations were made public, and sent word to several agencies in the U.S. government.

But Rice said if the CIA director had any reservations about the statement in the president's speech, "he did not make them known" to Bush or his staff.



Written by CBC News Online staff
 
"Written by CBC News Online staff"

Again...what are your sources? You have just quoted me something which may or may not be true...or may only be partially true and from just a single source. If, as an Int Op, I did something like that and called it the gospel I would be fired.

I say again, do not let the media and school do your thinking for you!
 
I went to your msn search idea and here's some info for you.
cia false-125625 hits
cia true -300466 hits
cia god  -228962 hits
Using your search pattern logic obviously the CIA is more truthful and god-like than falsifying. ::)
 
*Laughs* You guys are a bunch of old hard-asses eh? I respect that. Also, I am an open-minded individual. I didn't learn anything about the US from school except that they attacked us twice and we need them for defence.

I will admit most of the information I've attained/retained has come from news etc, in regards to this thread.

But as experienced people who possibly have had interactions with US military, you DO think Saddam has sizeable WMD? Or, lets say YES, he did have them, lots of them. Would this constitute going to war with them and raping thier entire country? Before this war, apparrently the people of Iraq used to have running water and electricity which is pretty hard to find there now days apparrently.

I dunno, I just think that the US pushed thier way into Iraq. Say for instance, we did join them and go to Iraq, would you folks have wanted to go/agreed with the US when it went against the United Nations??? I don't think that would have been very smart or Canadian.

Your the seasoned veterans so you tell me! Like I said, I'm open for being "schooled"...

;)
 
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