Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016

[DAA]

To elaborate a bit on what FJAG was hitting at (and it will be slightly different depending on what trade, etc):

In general there are no glass ceilings - what is a limit however is a requirement for you to demonstrate skills in a particular rank/position before you progress to the next.  Someone who enrols at age 20 will have more opportunities (by virtue of having more time to demonstrate them, learn skills, etc) to move higher up the ranks then someone who enrols at 35.  However, if the 35 year old is more competent and demonstrates the required skills better then his peers he will be selected over them for promotion/higher position.

I describe it like a checklist - once you accomplish what is required at a particular level you get compared to your peers who have done the same - and the best are chosen to progress.  Having less time means exactly that - you'll have to be better, in a shorter period of time, then your peers to be in the same spot when you both retire.  If your ambition is to be the CDS or Chief of the Army, your age likely will factor into being unable to complete the required checklist in time (even if you are truly exceptional) - but you won't be pinned into a rank/position simply because you happen to be older then your peers.

Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.

 

[cryco]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?

 

[RedcapCrusader]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?

I think it was more the case of, all their applicants were older and therefore were more familiar with armed conflicts and wars that Canada participated in and wanted to do their part but also a time where youth had little to no desire to join as it was seen as a "disgraceful, last resort" career for the convicts and the dropouts.

Just a wild guess.

 

[FJAG]

Great post, FTFY on one point.

Thanks Kratz - guess I'm showing my own old age  ;D

Just as an aside. I'm not adverse to changing careers late in life. I joined the regular army OCTP right out of high school and at age 32 decided to pack it in to go to law school and a civilian/reserve career. Even when everyone's on board there's a great shock for the whole family when you do that from leaving friends and family behind, finance and housing issues, a new career to learn and establish. I could go on but you get the idea.

Anyway. Best of luck in whatever decision you make.

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.

That seems to have been the case when I joined the militia. It was also customary in at least some of the Emergency Services:

"Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP recruited new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and based on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood; by hiring young adults, the RCMP secured a greater chance that those individuals would have a crime-free background."
http://www.shaba.co/wa?s=RCMP_recruitment#Age

( I don't vouch for the source. Take it for what it is worth.  :2c: )

I believe Human Rights legislation put an end to Age Discrimination around that time.

 

[Ayrsayle]

Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.

Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.

I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).

 

[DAA]

Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.

I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).

At one time, age at the time of enrolment was considered as a barrier to not just advancement but most of the future employment scenarios which you mentioned (ie; older than your peers, working for someone younger, etc, etc).  Then when that didn't work and the intake age increased, came the "enforce the limited pension aspect" thing (ie; your 36 and can't do 20 years for an immediate pension, etc) and when that didn't work came the "your career will be limited" thing (ie; never get past Cpl or Capt).

All of the above have credence to some extent.  The landscape has definitely changed and continues to do so.

Hell, in the early 80's I remember one day asking my Capt "Sir, why aren't you a Major yet?"  His response, "I'm 31, my career is done and I'll be lucky if I see Maj."

My how things have changed.........

 

[Pusser]

I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.   

What do you mean by sucking up?  The CF is an heirarchical organization that specializes in the management of violence; therefore, in short order within the outfit, you will receive orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your life in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  will come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  will come from people who are not as smart as you.

BUT you will still have to follow them, with the added benefit of being in an organization that has the legal authority to imprison you, should you not follow those orders.  If you last long enough, however, you may reach a point where YOU are giving orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your or your subordinates' lives in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  are a result of those that come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  are a result of those that come from people who are not as smart as you.

The saving grace is the hope that everyone has received sufficient training to make the right decisions at the right time and that only those with good judgement are placed in positions of responsibility.  For the most part, this is largely true, but there are exceptions...

Your ability to question decisions is dictated by the circumstances and the level of trust you have earned from your superiors.  The bottom line though is that warfare is chaotic and our heirarchy attempts to maintain some semblance of order, so there is often no time to question a leader's decision, even if you think it is wrong. 

 

[Comedian]

Thanks for the insight Pusser.

What you highlighted reminds me of my marriage.

Jokes aside, I appreciate the insight and do not see myself having an issue with anything you mentioned.

What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.

Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D

 

[DAA]

What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.

Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D

Oh, you definitely won't have to compliment the boss' shoes, as it shall be the boss, commenting on yours.........lol

 

[methionine]

I have read through the various "am i too old threads" but didn't see a discussion directly related to the idea of ageism in regards to career advancement.

I'm not sure what the average age of recruitment is, I've tried looking it up but some of the stats are contradictory but a general trend I have read commented on is a trend for applicants to be older than they were 15 or 20 years ago.

I imagine some trades are more accessible to all age groups than others. For example, would a 25 year old soldier find it more difficult to promote himself to the upper levels of soldiering (say, path finder, Para, Mountain Ops, etc.) than say a 25 year old entering the CAF as a construction technician. It would seem that those trades which rely more on physical ability rather than experience built up over time would prefer younger recruits than older ones.

As well, if a member was to do an occupational transfer at say, the age of 32, after a number of years of service in a different trade, would he/she be likely to face some discrimination based on their age relative to a 20 year old applicant?

 

[Jed]

Nothing new in this thread start up. My  :2c:; If you are say 25 and under there should be no issues wrt age. If you are starting out around 30 you will be handicapped due to ability and time to learn the military way. If you are around 40, unless you are a super jock, the physical aspect starts to come into play.

Of course it has to be this way due to the universality of service requirement. If you are an officer it is even more critical because you need to lead from the front, physically and mentally.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Nothing new in this thread start up. My  :2c:; If you are say 25 and under there should be no issues wrt age. If you are starting out around 30 you will be handicapped due to ability and time to learn the military way. If you are around 40, unless you are a super jock, the physical aspect starts to come into play.

Of course it has to be this way due to the universality of service requirement. If you are an officer it is even more critical because you need to lead from the front, physically and mentally.

Ditto!

The military is structured so that you acquire knowledge through experience.  In other words, don't expect to become a Senior Officer or NCO if you are 40 years old and all of a sudden got this itch to join the military, it ain't happening.

 

[methionine]

Any ideas as the the average age of a new recruit?

 

[mariomike]

Any ideas as the the average age of a new recruit?

Average age of enrollment.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/102500.0

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Currently in the application process as NCM Infantry Regular Force at the age of 27. Most applicants that I've met going for the same trade are 18 - 21 so will being an older applicant hurt my chances?

 

[GreenWood]

I have seen much older member going through BMQ and their trade course, you'll be fine!

Best of luck! 

 

[BKM1812]

Good Evening,

I am a 36 year old Paid on Call Firefighter with my NFPA Level 2 Certification, I am also employed as a Project Manager and Contractor; former university football coach. I have two children 9 and 6. Over the past 10 months I have made the educated decision that i wish to join as Infantry, my family is in agreement with this decision. I have gone to the Canadian Forces office and asked a recruiter several questions, which led to my decision of Infantry with the goal of progressing into a more specialized unit.

My question pertains to schedule; I realize that after Basic and Land Training I am then sent to train more specifically under my trade (Infantry). Are you able to give me the training schedule of an Infantry soldier based out of Wainwright, for example, for the 17 weeks.

Thanks very much for your time.

 

[Gunshark]

Well I'm working to join the Reserve NCM Combat Engineers at age of 28. Any thoughts on that? Don't mind the younger guys and assuming extra responsibility if necessary, but just hoping there will be a few people my age to relate more closely to.

 

[canafrican]

After basic training you are sent to wainwright or meaford Ontario for an additional 13 weeks of training for your dp1 infantry trades training. You are not garunteed wainwright, they will send you where they need you.

I would say to really think hard about joining, especially with having 2 small children as you're going to be away from them for at least 6+ months during bmq and dp1. This doesn't include waiting on pat platoon either. Once you've graduated dp1, they can send you to any regiment in Canada. Whether it's on the east or west coast.

At 36, you want to make sure you're in the best possible shape of your life for infantry dp1, because you're going to get beasted everyday for the first little while