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QQ: if you were Bill Morneau, what action could you take right now to reclaim/ recover your reputation? Just watching him so solemn faced waiting for his Lordship to appear at the Climate Change rally.
Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
- Thread starter Loachman
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I'm going to put my loonie on the other side: he's going to go down the, "at no time did I ever tell anyone to break the law - we were only looking for solutions" message track.QV said:
Also, paint me cynical, but remember as we hear more testimony that some say the difference between (1) "I don't remember" and (2) "I don't recall" is that with (1), one looks in the filing cabinet that is one's memory, but there's no file to be found, while with (2), the file may or may not be there, but one chooses not to open the cabinet to look
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You don’t think that’s too much of a low shot??
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WHAT ABOUT ALBERTA JOBS?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/snc-lavalin-entitled-dpa-1.5042822
A 'deferred prosecution agreement' would allow the firm to avoid criminal prosecution - 4 Mar 19
A Liberal MP says his party believes the SNC-Lavalin is "entitled" (there's that word again) to a deferred prosecution agreement — a legal mechanism that would allow the Quebec engineering firm to avoid criminal prosecution. "Our belief is that this company is one that is, like its competitors around the world, entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement, like they would be able to have access to in the U.K.," Steven MacKinnon, parliamentary secretary to the minister of Public Services and Procurement, told CBC News's Power & Politics today.
"The government's adopted approach on this is one that has favoured jobs, it's one that has favoured pensioners, supply chains and a major Canadian company - all innocent victims of some corrupt management maybe a decade ago." The Gatineau MP was speaking in the immediate aftermath of Jane Philpott's stunning resignation from cabinet earlier today. In a letter to the prime minister, the now former Treasury Board president said she's lost confidence in the way the Trudeau government has handled the growing SNC-Lavalin scandal.
Last week, former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould told a Commons justice committee she faced heavy political pressure and veiled threats from top Liberal officials who wanted her to allow SNC-Lavalin to avoid a trial on bribery charges. SNC-Lavalin is facing corruption charges over contracts in Libya and was lobbying for a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) as an alternative to criminal prosecution. DPAs allow companies to avoid criminal prosecution by paying hefty fines and, in some cases, agreeing to outside monitoring.
During her testimony, Wilson-Raybould, who resigned from cabinet last month, recounted how Kathleen Roussel, the director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC), let her know in early September 2018 that she was rejecting the company's request to negotiate a deferred prosecution. MacKinnon pointed to legislation that allows the attorney general to overturn a decision made by the director of public prosecutions.
"We do have a disagreement here. We absolutely have a disagreement here and I think the current attorney general has said that, look you have to keep assessing the facts as these cases move along," he said. "But the fact is that we have 10,000 Canadians and their families and pensioners and suppliers and others who are not entitled to the same kind relief they would get if they were to work for an SNC-Lavalin competitor in the United States or in the United Kingdom ...
"The disagreement goes to how you see how Canada ought to approach major economic questions like the SNC-Lavalin issue. Do we do it like our OECD partners, do with these deferred prosecution arrangements, that have been widely discussed? Or do we do it with a ... perhaps more rigid approach?" Deferred prosecution agreements became law in Canada in September of 2018. The SNC-Lavalin criminal case is now at the preliminary hearing stage. The company has pleaded not guilty.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/snc-lavalin-entitled-dpa-1.5042822
A 'deferred prosecution agreement' would allow the firm to avoid criminal prosecution - 4 Mar 19
A Liberal MP says his party believes the SNC-Lavalin is "entitled" (there's that word again) to a deferred prosecution agreement — a legal mechanism that would allow the Quebec engineering firm to avoid criminal prosecution. "Our belief is that this company is one that is, like its competitors around the world, entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement, like they would be able to have access to in the U.K.," Steven MacKinnon, parliamentary secretary to the minister of Public Services and Procurement, told CBC News's Power & Politics today.
"The government's adopted approach on this is one that has favoured jobs, it's one that has favoured pensioners, supply chains and a major Canadian company - all innocent victims of some corrupt management maybe a decade ago." The Gatineau MP was speaking in the immediate aftermath of Jane Philpott's stunning resignation from cabinet earlier today. In a letter to the prime minister, the now former Treasury Board president said she's lost confidence in the way the Trudeau government has handled the growing SNC-Lavalin scandal.
Last week, former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould told a Commons justice committee she faced heavy political pressure and veiled threats from top Liberal officials who wanted her to allow SNC-Lavalin to avoid a trial on bribery charges. SNC-Lavalin is facing corruption charges over contracts in Libya and was lobbying for a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) as an alternative to criminal prosecution. DPAs allow companies to avoid criminal prosecution by paying hefty fines and, in some cases, agreeing to outside monitoring.
During her testimony, Wilson-Raybould, who resigned from cabinet last month, recounted how Kathleen Roussel, the director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC), let her know in early September 2018 that she was rejecting the company's request to negotiate a deferred prosecution. MacKinnon pointed to legislation that allows the attorney general to overturn a decision made by the director of public prosecutions.
"We do have a disagreement here. We absolutely have a disagreement here and I think the current attorney general has said that, look you have to keep assessing the facts as these cases move along," he said. "But the fact is that we have 10,000 Canadians and their families and pensioners and suppliers and others who are not entitled to the same kind relief they would get if they were to work for an SNC-Lavalin competitor in the United States or in the United Kingdom ...
"The disagreement goes to how you see how Canada ought to approach major economic questions like the SNC-Lavalin issue. Do we do it like our OECD partners, do with these deferred prosecution arrangements, that have been widely discussed? Or do we do it with a ... perhaps more rigid approach?" Deferred prosecution agreements became law in Canada in September of 2018. The SNC-Lavalin criminal case is now at the preliminary hearing stage. The company has pleaded not guilty.
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That’s true.
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Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
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milnews.ca said:
I think you're right. This, along with stressing her political inexperience, business naivete and misinterpretation of the "advice" she received from the PM, PMO will be the response he will give. This will set the stage for the new AG to issue the DPA as a "course correction" for the government.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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Haggis said:
Perhaps. But she can point out the reverse: Neither Trudeau, Telford or Butts - not even Wernick - have ANY background or knowledge of law. They ALL come from a 'soft' arts or social sciences background. They have no claim on knowing law or ethics better than she does.
She delivered a classic, well prepared (note I didn't say "rehearsed') court like testimony-in-chief statement, with everything you need to make it believable. Can any of the following "witnesses" who come from an arts background (and probably believe they know better than her just because of where they rose in life in politics) make such a powerful impact in their testimony?
Personally, I doubt it very much. But we will see, won't we? :nod:
This could be a lot of fun.
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It's very odd to me that a DPA could even be considered in this case at all. At my office, we're often dealing with historical files where someone comes in to report a matter 20, 30 sometimes even 50 years old - as a first report. If we were to successfully locate the subject and grounds exist for charges, I cannot lay charges under the Criminal Code of today for an incident from back then - I have to use the Criminal Code as it existed at the time. If SNC Lavalin successfully lobbied the government (as it would appear to be the case) in 2018 to change the law, shouldn't it only apply from when it received Royal Assent moving forward and not retroactively apply to offences in the past? That's always been my understanding of the law...
Maybe FJAG can weigh in here...
Maybe FJAG can weigh in here...
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Just as a quick set up/head's up, here's who's speaking when tomorrow (Wed 6 Mar) ...
Canada's Cable Public Affairs Channel usually has a good link to live feeds from these things.
JesseWZ said:
My guess and it is only that, is that DPA is a sort of plea bargain mechanism. So they can still be charged for something and prosecuted but the sentencing and plea bargain arrangement is what is different.
Imagine someone murdered a family at the time we had the death penalty. That someone could be charged for a crime committed at that time. But the sentence and plea bargain rules would be today's standard not the standard that applied back then no?
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Interesting that the two who resigned are both members of regulated professions with standards for ethical behaviour.
https://globalnews.ca/news/5021267/trudeau-approval-rating-snc-lavalin-wilson-raybould/
March 4, 2019 9:42 pm
Most Canadians side with Wilson-Raybould, believe Trudeau has lost moral authority to govern: Ipsos poll
By Rahul Kalvapalle
A majority of Canadians are keeping tabs on the SNC-Lavalin affair and that doesn't bode well for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted exclusively for Global News.
If an election were held tomorrow, Trudeau would receive only 31 per cent of the decided popular vote - down three points from a couple of weeks ago - while Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer would receive 40 per cent, according to the poll of 1,000 Canadians carried out between March 1 and March 4.
That's the biggest lead the Conservatives have had since the previous election campaign - and that's despite the fact that the polling data was obtained before Treasury Board President Jane Philpott resigned from Trudeau's cabinet on Monday, following in the heels of former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould and principal secretary Gerald Butts.
"This is the first time we've actually seen the Conservative Party resuscitated and looking like they could potentially form the government," said Darrell Bricker, CEO of Ipsos Public Affairs.
"The Liberals, on the other hand, have been dropping precipitously over the space of the last few weeks. The question is have they hit bottom yet?"
The national approval figures are mirrored in Canada's largest province, Ontario, where the Conservatives sit at 40 per cent, nine points over the Liberals, who are at 31 per cent.
Crucially, the Tories enjoy a commanding lead in the vote-rich 905 region surrounding Toronto.
<snip>
The polling also reveals that the ongoing SNC-Lavalin affair is directly responsible for Trudeau's flagging support.
Sixty-four per cent of Canadians say they're now following the issue - that's 15 points up from two weeks ago.
Most of them also say they believe the issue deserves all the attention it has been getting, compared to less than a third who say the matter is being blown out of proportion.
<snip>
A majority of Canadians - 55 per cent - also say it's going to influence their voting decisions in this year's federal election. That includes nearly one in five Liberal voters.
<snip>
"[Canadians] are coming to conclusions, and the conclusions they're coming to relate to the character of the main protagonist," said Bricker.
<snip>
Nearly a quarter of Liberal voters say they believe Trudeau should step aside while the SNC-Lavalin affair is investigated, with 73 per cent of Liberals agreeing that the RCMP should probe the issue and lay charges against politicians and bureaucrats where appropriate.
<snip>
Bricker says Trudeau is faced with three options: tough it out until the next election, step aside and let someone else lead the Liberal Party or call a snap election to clear the air.
Approval rating numbers suggest Trudeau would be well-advised not to take up Option 3.
<snip>
March 4, 2019 9:42 pm
Most Canadians side with Wilson-Raybould, believe Trudeau has lost moral authority to govern: Ipsos poll
By Rahul Kalvapalle
A majority of Canadians are keeping tabs on the SNC-Lavalin affair and that doesn't bode well for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted exclusively for Global News.
If an election were held tomorrow, Trudeau would receive only 31 per cent of the decided popular vote - down three points from a couple of weeks ago - while Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer would receive 40 per cent, according to the poll of 1,000 Canadians carried out between March 1 and March 4.
That's the biggest lead the Conservatives have had since the previous election campaign - and that's despite the fact that the polling data was obtained before Treasury Board President Jane Philpott resigned from Trudeau's cabinet on Monday, following in the heels of former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould and principal secretary Gerald Butts.
"This is the first time we've actually seen the Conservative Party resuscitated and looking like they could potentially form the government," said Darrell Bricker, CEO of Ipsos Public Affairs.
"The Liberals, on the other hand, have been dropping precipitously over the space of the last few weeks. The question is have they hit bottom yet?"
The national approval figures are mirrored in Canada's largest province, Ontario, where the Conservatives sit at 40 per cent, nine points over the Liberals, who are at 31 per cent.
Crucially, the Tories enjoy a commanding lead in the vote-rich 905 region surrounding Toronto.
<snip>
The polling also reveals that the ongoing SNC-Lavalin affair is directly responsible for Trudeau's flagging support.
Sixty-four per cent of Canadians say they're now following the issue - that's 15 points up from two weeks ago.
Most of them also say they believe the issue deserves all the attention it has been getting, compared to less than a third who say the matter is being blown out of proportion.
<snip>
A majority of Canadians - 55 per cent - also say it's going to influence their voting decisions in this year's federal election. That includes nearly one in five Liberal voters.
<snip>
"[Canadians] are coming to conclusions, and the conclusions they're coming to relate to the character of the main protagonist," said Bricker.
<snip>
Nearly a quarter of Liberal voters say they believe Trudeau should step aside while the SNC-Lavalin affair is investigated, with 73 per cent of Liberals agreeing that the RCMP should probe the issue and lay charges against politicians and bureaucrats where appropriate.
<snip>
Bricker says Trudeau is faced with three options: tough it out until the next election, step aside and let someone else lead the Liberal Party or call a snap election to clear the air.
Approval rating numbers suggest Trudeau would be well-advised not to take up Option 3.
<snip>
Remius said:
I have seen statutory rape cases where the age-of-consent in place at the time of the offence, as opposed to the the age-of-consent in place at the time of the charge or trial, was what the court considered.
Sentence is another matter, at least in the case of a punishment not currently available.
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