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All Things Vegetarian/Vegan (merged)

i would never recommend fish. it's a sponge, anything in the water, is 200-500% higher in the fishes meat.

i've seen people that eat meat everyday for 75 years, and they die at an old age of heart disease or stroke.
some of cancer.... they lived a long life, and well, they died.

but i've seen other people that die at 45 sometimes younger, a friend at 28, and they liked to drink, smoke, use drugs, and their bodies shut down, and they die....

diet is not  the only factor, but it's a big one.
i don't eat meat, i have high blood pressure, i will likely die the same way most of my family goes, heart disease!
they all ate meat, and smoked.... and none of them had these problems until in their late adult years. i have them at 25!
they are no guarantee
 
Britney Spears said:
Are you claiming that a "vegan" diet is superior to a normal, helathy, balanced diet composed of all major food groups?

It wouldn't surprise me, if so he wouldn't be the first vegan I've met who've claimed nutritional (and many times moral) superiority to the poor, uneducated cavemen who eat meat such as myself.
 
Your nutritional advice isn't BAD, and may be appropriate for some people who do subsist on garbage and look like it. I would agree with you that the average North American does not eat enough vegetables and too much sugar and fat, but that's just common sense. On the other hand none of the above readings are advocating a completely "vegan" diet either. A proportion of 10% meat/dary to 90% vegetables and whole grains sounds like a low but fairly reasonable starting point, especially for a sedentary lifestyle,  but you also have to take into account your activity level, age, and individual metabolism too. High protein foods are a must during periods of moderate to intense physical activity, if you want to avoid excessive loss of muscle mass. Ever try running a marathon on a  vegan diet?

The "Mediterranean/Asian Diet" is over-geenralized. The Japanese consume prodigious amounts of animal protein, and fish like salmon are loaded in fat.

"Vegan" is a completely arbitrary line that might be in the right direction for some people, but still an arbitrary line. Marketing firms like to have simple absolute rules that they can belt out at people who can't be bothered to think too much.  Healthy, active  people who already eat well balanced diets like the ones your sources advocate- and none of them, as far as I can tell, advocate the complete elimination of ALL animal foods indefinitely,  have no use for it.

Right now, I spend most of my day surfing army.ca, so my intake of meat and dairy is quite low, but I've been on courses and deployments where I ate about 1 lb of meat alone PER DAY, and believe me I needed every little bit of it to keep me going. Don't get tied up with this "all meat is bad" stuff and make intelligent choices according to the situation.   
 
Futuretrooper said:
I eat meat in every single one of my meals, and I have never had a single health problem, no allergies, no broken bones, nothing.

You have about an 80% chance of dying from cancer, stroke, heat disease, or diabetes.

Someday it will happen.

But for me, I would rather take "old age, peacefully, in my sleep" rather than "in pain from heart disease, at a hospital".


 
Britney Spears said:
Ever try running a marathon on a  vegan diet?

Yes I have, and so did this guy.. Scott Jurek, he is a vegan and just broke the record for one
of the world-class ultra-running marathons hardest races by more than 30 minutes. The next closest competitor
was 2 hours behind him.

"For food, Jurek, a vegan, ate energy bars and gels, potatoes and rice balls, chased by soy protein drinks and electrolyte capsules. He consumed 60-120 calories every 20-30 minutes, mostly on the run."

If you think vegans are skinny or weak, please check http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/

EDIT: one thing I forgot to mention was that it seems you are suffering from a very common
missconception: "you cant get protien or calcium from vegetables and require daily doses of milk and meat."

If you would like some very good information on why that isnt true I'll be happy to provide it.

Cheers


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/othersports/233630_jurek22.html said:
Seattle man amazes everyone in 135-mile marathon--including himself

By KRISTIN DIZON
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Look at the photo of the man crossing the tape, arms raised in victory, mouth frozen in a primal yell.

He hardly looks as if he's just run 135 miles, through 115-degree desert heat, from the lowest point in the United States to the slopes of one of its highest points, Mount Whitney.

You wouldn't know that this was his first time racing the Badwater Ultramarathon, or that he shattered the course record by more than half an hour, or that he was a full two hours ahead of his closest competitor.

But the accomplishment is all over Scott Jurek's face.

On July 12, in 24 hours, 36 minutes and eight seconds, the Seattle man won the Badwater, one of ultrarunning's toughest events. Before the California race, Jurek had never run more than 90 minutes on pavement. Nor had he trained for the intense desert heat, except for arriving a week early to the Death Valley start area. And, he'd just come off of winning another world-class ultramarathon two weeks earlier -- barely any recovery time between two colossally demanding endurance feats.

Jurek, who won his seventh Western States 100-miler in a row in June, says he conquered the Badwater by respecting the heat and biding his time.

"You have to be very patient in a race like that," said Jurek, who lives on Capitol Hill. "They've had lots of fast runners go in and think they can just hammer out 7-minute miles from the get go. But, it's a really long day. That's the longest that I'd ever run in my life in one shot."

Some say the Badwater is the most extreme running race in the world. Just 81 runners attempted it this year, and only 67 finished the course, which started 282 feet below sea level in Death Valley and finished 8,360 feet up Mount Whitney. Many competitors take almost as long as the 60-hour cutoff, and some will sleep or rest for hours at a time.

At 31, Jurek is considered young for a world-class ultrarunner, and was the second-youngest in the entire field.

Jurek, a physical therapist, running coach and consultant for Brooks Sports Inc., paced himself with 9- to 10-minute miles during the heat of the day, saving his reserves for the evening, when the temperatures sank below 100.

Before the race, he probably shook things up a bit when he predicted he'd win and set a record time. Though some veterans thought that a little presumptuous, Jurek felt calm and confident.

For more than half the race, Jurek ran in third place, about eight miles and 40 minutes behind the leader. And, around mile 75, he began feeling queasy, then vomited.

That was the mental trough of the race, the point at which he questioned whether to continue.

"My stomach wasn't feeling very good and the heat was starting to drag me down. And, I definitely started to think, gosh, after Western States, why am I doing this so soon?"

Jurek stopped and lay down for about five minutes, but his support crew of nine helpers and pacers, including his wife, Leah, urged him on.

"There's no aid stations out there, so your crew is your lifeline," he said.

Jurek, who's fought through such lows many times, told himself, "I've been here before. I can get through this."

"You dig down deep, whether it's the deep recesses of your body or your soul. It's very soul-searching in a way," he said. "Even though everything else seems to be unraveling, you try to find a way, a source of strength. And, you don't always know where that comes from."

Throughout the race, he kept cool with ice -- in his hat or bandanna, or pressed against his skin. In 24 hours, Jurek went through about 350 pounds of ice. He also sprayed himself with water to combat what felt like a hot hair dryer blasting him all day.

During the peak hours of heat, Jurek drank 16-20 ounces of water every mile. When evening came, he curtailed that to 8-12 ounces per mile.

For food, Jurek, a vegan, ate energy bars and gels, potatoes and rice balls, chased by soy protein drinks and electrolyte capsules. He consumed 60-120 calories every 20-30 minutes, mostly on the run.

That night, when the temperature eased a bit, Jurek made his move. He gained ground on a long downhill, then closed it out. He said the finish -- 5,000 feet uphill over 13 miles -- was one of the toughest he's experienced.

Badwater race director Chris Kostman said he's impressed with Jurek, who had little experience racing on pavement or in such heat.

"There are some people who thought the record was unbreakable," Kostman said. "He's definitely raised the bar."

Now, people are starting to think the race can be done in less than 24 hours, including Jurek.

For now, he has no specific plans for another ultramarathon. He'll skip next year's Western States, but says he might run the Badwater again in the next few years.

But back to that photo of Jurek crossing the finish line. He said that moment almost felt like fireworks going off.

"It's this sense, almost like, you're unstoppable," Jurek says. "You've reached this state where you feel on top of the world."
 
You could also walk across the street tomorrow and get hit by a bus.  Eating a healthy, well-balanced meal is important, and whether or not it includes meat is individual choice.  Nothing is going to guarantee you will die peacefully in your sleep at an old age.  It just doesn't work that way.  I happen to eat meat because I like it.  That's my choice....doesn't mean I'm going to die a horrible nasty death in some hospital.  ::)
 
Steve said:
It wouldn't surprise me, if so he wouldn't be the first vegan I've met who've claimed nutritional (and many times moral) superiority to the poor, uneducated cavemen who eat meat such as myself.

wow.
 
If you think vegans are skinny or weak, please check http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/

I'm afraid I don't see any evidence here indicating that a vegan diet is BETTER than a regular one, especially without the use of various supplements. Factor in things like time/ease of preperation, cost, taste, and convenience, and I fail to see any advantages, although with a lot of creative cooking and eating a wide variety of foods, vegan diets are JUST AS healthy, but no more so. Since I enjoy the taste of meat so much, and our cooks are a "Tier 1" outfit compared to the rest of the world, vegan is a no-go for me personally. :)

Now having said that, since the topic is still IMPs, you may find it needlessly bothersome to attempt to maintain a strict vegan diet under adverse conditions. While I fully support your choice of a vegan lifestyle under normal circumstances, keep in mind that the mission always comes first, and you should not be adverse to enjoying an odd critter or two when the other lifestyle choice(soldier) demands it. 
 
I have to agree with Britney on that. By trying to maintain a strictly vegan diet in the CF you will undoubtedly run in to trouble. You may think "I will bring enough vegan food to get me through this week that they have called me out to the ice storm". Then a month later when your still sitting in some blacked out high school suffering from starvation because you wont eat the ham omlette IMP, you may be singing a different tune.

Nothing against your beliefs but you have to look at all the possibilities.
 
You got to be 5hitting me. Now Veggie meals. I'm getting sick of this crap.
 
Hope you aren't planning on going to be apart of a "hard" MOC that will have to make due with whatever is given to them when deployed.

Don't expect to eat any special dietary meals in an OP in A'Stan.

Good luck in the CF.
 
Heh, " You just joined today? Well, I joined last week, and boy, let me tell you what the OLD army was like......" :)

(Thanks Big Bad John)
 
Ok, Im going to try to make this as short and simple as I can because Im actually in the middle
of moving at the moment, I have tonight and tomorrow to do all of it. eek.

Anyway, I've heard so much"mah mama is 234 years old and chews leather for breakfast" that  my ears want to bleed.

Let me make this clear, just because you are still alive does not mean you are healthy.

I've got news for all you people who eat the typical north American diet. By the time you reach 40, your chance of
atherosclerosis (hardening) of your blood vessels is over 95%. You may think "heart disease won't happen to me!"
but bad news bud, it already has happened, and the chance you are going to die someday from your atherosclerosis is about 50%.

FACT: Heart disease is the #1 killer in the United States, accounting for more than 40% of all deaths.

FACT: Each year approximately 1.5 million Americans suffer a heart attack or myocardial infarction; nearly 500,000
of them die as a result.

My grandma might be the exception to the rule, maybe your grandma too.
But 1.5 million people are not the exception, they are the rule.

The RULE: Eat a fatty diet of meat, milk, eggs, and poltry and you will die before your time.

The NEW RULE: Change to a diet of mostly plant-foods and most, if not all, of this hurt can be avoided.

Ok, now, some people have said "but this is not a complete vegan diet, your only saying 90% of calories needs to be plant-food".
True. However, in all the studys done including the Cambridge-Oxford-China Project, as the intake of
unprocessed vegetable food increased the chance of cancer, heart disease, and other disease DECREASED, all the
way down to near 0% heart disease when 100% of the diet came from plant-foods.

90% is the magic number, you need at least that much to see real benifis, however the benifits
continue to increase as that percentage rises. Your OPTIMUM increase in health benifits happens
at 100%.

Clear?

Ok, now as far as those who are worried I wont eat a critter if I have to, let me asure you that I will
indeed eat a critter "if I have to". So don't worry, I wont compromise any missions because of my diet.

All I ask for is a little understanding, a little tollerance, and a little effort to provide me with a meal I
feel is worth eating while I serve my country. In return I promise to do my best no matter what...
even if you cant always provide me the meal I want.. I'll still do my best.

Cheers, and now Im off to pack!
 
neuromancer said:
Ok, Im going to try to make this as short and simple as I can because Im actually in the middle
of moving at the moment, I have tonight and tomorrow to do all of it. eek.

Anyway, I've heard so much"mah mama is 234 years old and chews leather for breakfast" that   my ears want to bleed.

Let me make this clear, just because you are still alive does not mean you are healthy.

I've got news for all you people who eat the typical north American diet. By the time you reach 40, your chance of
atherosclerosis (hardening) of your blood vessels is over 95%. You may think "heart disease won't happen to me!"
but bad news bud, it already has happened, and the chance you are going to die someday from your atherosclerosis is about 50%.

FACT: Heart disease is the #1 killer in the United States, accounting for more than 40% of all deaths.

FACT: Each year approximately 1.5 million Americans suffer a heart attack or myocardial infarction; nearly 500,000
of them die as a result.

My grandma might be the exception to the rule, maybe your grandma too.
But 1.5 million people are not the exception, they are the rule.

The RULE: Eat a fatty diet of meat, milk, eggs, and poltry and you will die before your time.

The NEW RULE: Change to a diet of mostly plant-foods and most, if not all, of this hurt can be avoided.

Ok, now, some people have said "but this is not a complete vegan diet, your only saying 90% of calories needs to be plant-food".
True. However, in all the studys done including the Cambridge-Oxford-China Project, as the intake of
unprocessed vegetable food increased the chance of cancer, heart disease, and other disease DECREASED, all the
way down to near 0% heart disease when 100% of the diet came from plant-foods.

90% is the magic number, you need at least that much to see real benifis, however the benifits
continue to increase as that percentage rises. Your OPTIMUM increase in health benifits happens
at 100%.

Clear?

Ok, now as far as those who are worried I wont eat a critter if I have to, let me asure you that I will
indeed eat a critter "if I have to". So don't worry, I wont compromise any missions because of my diet.

All I ask for is a little understanding, a little tollerance, and a little effort to provide me with a meal I
feel is worth eating while I serve my country. In return I promise to do my best no matter what...
even if you cant always provide me the meal I want.. I'll still do my best.

Cheers, and now Im off to pack!

Let us know when you return to earth......i think you will find the logistics of things are a little different.  You say "all i ask is a meal I FEEL is worth eating....", this is where you need to shake your head.  Since when is this about you ?  If your diet choices are exactly that, choices, then suck it up and eat what you are provided and count yourself lucky that resupply made it to where you are.
 
neuromancer said:
Anyway, I've heard so much"mah mama is 234 years old and chews leather for breakfast" that   my ears want to bleed.

Yes, and I've heard so much of this spout out of the mouths of vegetarians and vegans that my ears want to bleed! 

FACT:  You do not know everything.  Eat whatever you want.  Frankly, I couldn't care less if you want to eat nothing but dirt for the rest of your life.  That would be your choice.  Yay for choices.  However, what I eat is absolutely none of your business.  If I choose to eat a big raw steak for dinner every night...that is my choice.  You ask for a little tolerance and understanding, but you aren't giving that in return.
 
beach_bum said:
Yes, and I've heard so much of this spout out of the mouths of vegetarians and vegans that my ears want to bleed! 

FACT:  You do not know everything.  Eat whatever you want.  Frankly, I couldn't care less if you want to eat nothing but dirt for the rest of your life.  That would be your choice.  Yay for choices.  However, what I eat is absolutely none of your business.  If I choose to eat a big raw steak for dinner every night...that is my choice.  You ask for a little tolerance and understanding, but you aren't giving that in return.

Wow, when did I not show tolerance? When I tried to warn you of possible dangers?
You have a funny way of saying thanks. I guess my input isnt wanted, so feel free to stop reading this thread anytime.

On the other hand, since I pay taxes into healthcare I could easily argue that what YOU eat is absolutely MY business, because
while I'm going to be perfectly healthy in a few years, your not, and that means I'm going to have to pay for your
medical expenses.

That was only a joke folks.. because in all honesty. IN ALL HONESTY!! I completely agree with you!
What you eat is your business, you should be free to choose what you put into your body.
All I ask is for that same freedom.

Today the link between animal products and many different diseases is as strongly supported in the scientific literature
as is the link between smoking and lung cancer.

Hopefully in 20 years people will feel the same way about eating animal products as people today are
starting to feel about smoking.


 
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