All things LASIK surgery (aircrew/other -- merged)

[Unglunk]

    Not that this remotely applies to me, but why would laser eye surgery matter before applying to be a pilot? As long as things went well and it had been over a year post surgery without any problems, what is the problem with it? I had laser surgery 5 years ago and am still 20/20 uncorrected as a result to this day. That doesn't make an ounce of sense. It should be based on your vision being 20/20 and STABLE.

 

[Armymedic]

 That doesn't make an ounce of sense.

As you will see, once in you are in, there is a lot of things that the CF does that will not make sense to you. There is usually a good reason, which may or may not become apparent to you as you get more experience.

 

[xmarcx]

    Not that this remotely applies to me, but why would laser eye surgery matter before applying to be a pilot? As long as things went well and it had been over a year post surgery without any problems, what is the problem with it? I had laser surgery 5 years ago and am still 20/20 uncorrected as a result to this day. That doesn't make an ounce of sense. It should be based on your vision being 20/20 and STABLE.

First off, big picture, the military is generally risk averse. The Air Force especially - training a pilot costs big money, and aircraft cost more. 30,000 feet in the air in a $30 million aircraft would be a bad time to discover an unattended side effect. As much as it may drive us low level types nuts, it's the duty of senior level commanders and managers to take all reasonable steps to protect the people and equipment of the Forces.

Second, more specifically, the enduring concern with laser eye surgery, specifically LASIK, is that it compromises the integrity of the structure of the eye. Consider this analogy - if you were looking to buy a submarine to take to the bottom of the ocean, and you had the choice between a brand new, top of the line submarine, and another identical submarine....that someone had cut open,  tinkered with, then welded back together with a new welding technique that had never been tried on a submarine at that depth before - it would be an easy decision to make.

 

[KingKikapu]

More specifically, I believe one of the major concerns was with LASIK flaps dislodging "somehow" on high G maneuvers.  Either that or some susceptibility to deform easier than a normal eye.  I suppose the only thing holding a flap together with the eye is either a weak covalent bond, or some Hydrogen bond, so I guess it's feasible.  HIGHLY unlikely, but feasible.

 

[dapaterson]

Second, more specifically, the enduring concern with laser eye surgery, specifically LASIK, is that it compromises the integrity of the structure of the eye. Consider this analogy - if you were looking to buy a submarine to take to the bottom of the ocean, and you had the choice between a brand new, top of the line submarine, and another identical submarine....that someone had cut open,  tinkered with, then welded back together with a new welding technique that had never been tried on a submarine at that depth before - it would be an easy decision to make.

...although, in a Canadian context, new vs used submarines is perhaps not the best example to use...


Given that these types of eye surgery are still relatively recent innovations, and long term epidemiological studies are only just beginning to be conducted (long-term being 10+ years), it may be a while before the CF relaxes certain aspects of the policy.  I'm not  a doctor, though, so don't be quoting "Some guy on the internet said..."

 

[KingKikapu]

In all honesty, the science is pretty easy.  Human eyes use a limited band, and the lasers used to correct them are orders of magnitude smaller in wavelength, making them incredibly accurate.  The only thing that could be improved at this stage is eye movement tracking sensors, but adding an adaptive optics package to the sensor suite seems like incredible overkill.

I would like to point out that numerous long term (10+ years) studies have been released showing LASIK and PRK to be safe and stable.  Waveguided LASIK/PRK have made the procedure even more accurate.  More importantly, laser surgeries are orders of magnitude safer than wearing contacts.

 

[RubberTree]

I spoke with Dr. Lin in Vancouver about the flap dislodgement issue as I've been thinking about surgery for a while. He stated that during his practice (and he is one of the pioneers of Laser eye surgery in North America so its a long practice) he has never actually seen a flap dislodge. He has read cases about this happening but the accidents that caused the dislodgment were very severe and the eyes were already damaged beyond repair.

 

[KingKikapu]

To be honest, the thought of ejecting with LASIK flaps is not very appealing, but I think I would have bigger worries if that ever happened.

Also, I got PRK so it wouldn't be an issue. 

 

[xmarcx]

All science aside, regardless of any evidence either way, try war gaming the problem from the point of view of the senior officer in charge of the decision.

There rarely seems to be a shortage of people applying for the pilot trade. The military has been comfortable for decades taking people with no prior experience and training them 100% to their standards, so qualifications and experience is a non issue. If you have a seemingly limitless pool of candidates with natural, surgery free 20/20 vision, with no possible risk for future surgery related complications, and then a number of candidates who do present this risk, even if it is just an urban legend or a theoretical possibility, from a risk management point of view, you're going to take the natural vision candidates.

It's the same kind of thinking that ends up in troops wearing their helmets in a milcot on the ranges - it seems like a gay rule to the individual soldier, but someone up the chain of command is just exercising his duty of care to the maximum extent.

Personally, I'd hate to be a high ranking Air Force type the day Lt. Flyboy's eyeballs explode pulling a tight turn...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Reviving necropost to share latest (MODS:  pls let me know if this is better as a stand-alone) - it appears the CF is taking the first steps toward setting up its own surgery program:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81725/post-786998.html#msg786998

 

[medicineman]

The issues with pilots were multifactorial.  First off, there wasn't any good evidence at the time that changes in pressure combined with 6 or 7 G's weren't going to cause issues with the integrity of the eyeball after surgery had been done.  Secondly, a  study of US and UK tactical helicopter pilots showed that there was potential problem with fine colour perception while wearing night vision goggles in pilots that had laser corrections.  As you might imagine, this could have rather awful consequenses with a Chinook with half a company of troops aboard if the pilot had problems distinguishing the geography in front of him while flying nap of the earth.  As it turned out, it was a non-issue, but it had to be looked at.

As for the person that thought badly of the policy, well, it's a volunteer military, with limited numbers of spaces, so we can be picky and choosy as to who gets in and does what - we aren't here to cater to your needs or wants, but to ours and ours alone.

MM

 

[old medic]

It's no problem at all milnews.ca.
Better to have these updated, rather than old information all over that turns up in searches.

 

[nickinguelph]

I was originally classified as a V4, and went ahead with Wave Front Lasik...now 7 weeks after the surgery, I have 20/15 vision, and mild halos around bright lights at night (which is fading).  My optometrist has signed off on the stability of my eyes and I have submitted my form to have my vision re-evaluated for my recruitment into AEC.
What is the process for this? As one PA told me that it could take 4 to 5 days, but then an PA assistant told me it will take 3-4 weeks. 
Thanks very much!

 

[old medic]

As with anything that has to be sent away, plan for worst case scenario. 
The file and the new information will be sent off for approval. Beyond that, hard to say on the time.
Are they sitting there just waiting to read the next file, or are they already off on Christmas vacation?
Impossible for us to say.

 

[nickinguelph]

As with anything that has to be sent away, plan for worst case scenario.   
The file and the new information will be sent off for approval. Beyond that, hard to say on the time.
Are they sitting there just waiting to read the next file, or are they already off on Christmas vacation?
Impossible for us to say.

Thanks very much!  That is what I am expecting to happen, oh well, April BMOQ here I come
Cheers!

 

[Smirnoff123]

This is great news for me  ;D

 

[combatbuddha]

We all have seen what going for the lowest bidder has cost the CF over the years.
4000 is alot of money but it was worth it to me. Heck, the LDA, whenever it gets here will be paying for it and it is income tax deductable. I should see about 1000 back.

 

[KingKikapu]

agreed.  Your vision shouldn't be something you skimp on.

 

[Smirnoff123]

Wearing normal glasses has been approved as well, unless im misunderstanding what the recruiter said.

 

[aesop081]

Wearing normal glasses has been approved as well, unless im misunderstanding what the recruiter said.

Thats because the vision standard has changed so that some people who are V2 can apply.