All Things Combat Diver (merged)

[foerestedwarrior]

i beleive, you have to be fully qualified to apply to get on teh course, then be in top physical shape to take the pre course PT part of it. pass thenat, then be selected for the course. Though diver409 would know more than I, I only know a bit because i am sorta looking at that as a possibilitie aswell.

 

[Diver409]

     Sometimes you will be selected to attend the combat diver preliminary course (prelim) through your own request...sometimes, as in my case, you will be told you are taking the prelim.   It is scary as hell to be told...but an honor none the less.   Whether you are selected from a pile of requests or just told to do it, you must show that you have some level of capabiity and determination to warrant putting your name up the chain of command.   DO NOT TRAIN FOR THE PRELIM!!   The dive team does not want a soldier who needs to train for an operation...because sometimes they come out of no where.   You cannot train for an operation that surprises you.   These were the words spoken to me when I asked what training I should do.   If you want an upper edge for the prelim, take a civie dive course and get familiar with the underworld.
     The prelim is two weeks long and it is alot of pain...mental, physical and sometimes emotional.   Your strength, stamina, endurance, memory, inteligence, fear of drowning and will power will all be tested.   On the prelim you will be in pain and you will be hurt, it is up to you only whether or not you can overcome both.   No matter if you pass or fail the prelim...you will know what you are made of by the end.   You need to know diving, diving physiology and gas laws, explosives calculations and the physics of their reactions underwater, and don't forget the use of the many pieces of equipment at our disposal.
     If you have asthma...don't show up, not a fan of pain...don't bother, a heart murmer...don't show up, closterphobia...try again, a fear of the dark or being alone...don't show up, don't work well with small teams of highly motivated self supervising technicians...guess what?   If you are not a good swimmer...NO ONE CARES!!   One candidate on my prelim almost drowned during his swim test...he became one of the best combat divers I've ever seen.   Neoprene helps you float so just pass the swim test.   A 70% drop out/failure rate on the prelims is not beyond the norm.   The prelim is a pass/fail go/no go situation...but there have been exceptions in extreme cases.   On my prelim only myself and one other passed, but four of us were sent and all of us passed the course.   The course is now 10 weeks long and although there are slower times on the course than the prelim, it is still about as fun as surfing a rockslide.   The course is run in both Gagetown, NB and Halifax, NS.
     If a reservist is a combat diver, then he was once in the reg force.   If he was never in the reg force, then he is most likely only a ships team diver.   If niether is the case and he IS a combat diver, then he was once a ships team diver and he trained with the combat divers long enough to get a bypass...there is no other solution.   A combat diver in Canada will always be a qualified combat engineer...no exceptions.  Any more questions...you know where to find me...cheers.

 

[banko]

Thanks Diver409! I enjoyed reading your post, it's always good to hear it from someone who's "been there, done that"... Definately something I would like to work towards.

 

[zerhash]

lol so you dont have to be able to swim eh?  :-X

 

[Spr.Earl]

Heres a link to the unofficial Combat Divers web site.
It will give you a lot of info on training and what our divers have been up to in the past.

http://www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC/

 

[Sapper6]

Combat Divers - Are they going to survive in the CF?

Anyone want to start a dialogue on the value of maintaining Combat Divers in the Canadian Army?

 

[54/102 CEF]

I will ask my spies

In the meantime - swim around here www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC

 

[54/102 CEF]

Unofficial Diver site? Its the only one so lets be clear - its their only "official"   Un-Official Site  

If there are any divers out there - please pass the word - the site will get the deep six in January unless I hear from the powers that be

 

[eod/combatdiver]

It sounds Like I put Diver 409 threw his prelim and all things said are true. Someone said that they seen a reservist with a dive badge true however it was a ship's team diver badge and they couldn't had a combatdiver badge. Reservists can take a ship's divers course that is 6 weeks long on one of the coast but if they decide to become a combat diver in the reg force they have to take the underwater demolition phase and number of other tasks that are unique to combat diving.  The resson that reserve engineer units do not have dive section is because it takes a lot of man power to run a dive stores and a lot coordination to keep everyone current. When it comes to life support equipment you need people to be dedicated to the job and maintain that equipment. At 2CER we have a hard time doing that at time due to courses and operational commitment.

Bubbles Up!!!!

 

[Spr.Earl]

I can't see us we out them,Why?
They do beach recce's,underwater demo,underwater construction.
So yes they will survive.

 

[McG]

I've heard pers from 3VP argue that the infantry should take the dive job from  engineers.  Generally, I think this is silly because the majority of dive tasks involve engineer work and those tasks that could be considered non-engineering are not outside the capabilities of a sapper.

 

[043]

Hmmmmmmmmmm can rentals do the dive course? LOL

 

[Diver409]

I can't remember what year it was, '99 or '00, but a few infanteers came up to me on remembrance day and shook my hand for merely being a combat diver.  I was surprised to say the least but then one of them, while standing with his comrade, asked me why the engineers hog the dive course...I quickly asked him why the infanteers hog the sniper course.  He had to confir with his friend of this fact as he was clearly unaware this was the case.  The fact remains that anyone can take the 'ships team diver' course...it's only a matter of justification.  If the infantry want to create a team of divers so that they can transfer from river bank to river bank without being seen in a boat, or because the need to pop up beside a boat and take everyone out comes up alot...then they can have at it.  Chances are they will find out that there are more dangers in that capability than they have ever thought about.  We'll start with the natural dangers of diving physics and the pressures of diving on the human body...let alone all the gear you'd like to bring with you.  Then we'll move into the gas laws which not only need to be studied and understood, but they need to be adhered to strictly or or you will find nothing more than a team of infanteers in wet suits belly up on the surface with their lungs spilling out of their mouths...for example.  Then we can talk about the politics of why the combat divers seem incapable of convincing any policy makers of why they need the stealth capability of a re-breather system.  That some sentry walking along the waters edge minding his own business doesn't just look over and see the pleasant array of tiny bubbles streaming from our tanks, raise an alarm unheard by those beneath the water, toss a couple of grenades in or even just wait around for the divers to surface and have himself a party at our disadvantage.  It does take a well trained diver to be chosen for a task befitting such a scenario...but how well trained does one need to be to spot a buttload of bubbles and react to them?  Those who would argue 'why not the infantry' see the prestige of looking like a seal team, not the pain of wondering if that last blast of air bubbles comes from your team mates who may now be trapped under the over two tonne piece of floating bridge that broke free from it's shackles and slammed into the river bed.  How about the fact that you've seen team mates, after all the training they've gone through, now left without the ability to dive until they've undergone extensive medical treatments because of being ravaged by bacteria from the water they were sent into.  For all the pleasures of being a diver, there are a millions pains in diving...and we are still learning.
    The infantry only see the cool, not the cost.  The combat divers will survive because who else are you going to send when someone high in the chain of command loses his favorite watch over the side of a bridge...being built buy engineers.  You infantry wanna be a diver then come get some...but do some research and find out the whole story, not just the cool parts.

BUBBLES UP!

 

[Spr.Earl]

As of a couple of years ago I believe we rentals can get the course if slot's are available.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Diver409,excellent post
Every one think's it's a swan,NO IT'S NOT!!
It's very hard work.

I was at Kootney Castle when 1 CER sent the Dive Section when the dived the Columbia River day and night.
I along with another were on their night swim down river,we were the shore side support and monitored comm.'s just in case.
They came ashore about 3 klick's up river from us and what they talked about was scary what they whent through in the river and this was just a night swim with no gear,just suit's.

Oh by the way the Dive patch is still on the Bay door in the Wack!!

 

[54/102 CEF]

Keep watching  www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC ---- the diver web site that explains all this is going to do another year blazing the Internet trails for the Canadian Army

PS: there is also a diver manual link right on the front page so why not do some pre-reading before that awkward moment when the ask - so - why do you want to be a diver? Hit them with some evidence you have rad up on it and have more than a warm fuzzy and you never know - you could be off on alife of adventure - or end up sticking shelves in the Canex -- its really up to you!  

 

[043]

What do you think of that EOD/Combat Diver? Any rentals get the Dive Course in 2 CER lately?

 

[eod/combatdiver]

I have not seen any in the last 7yr that I have been with the team but maybe one slipped under the radar. Like I said before the only reseves that has a combatdiver badge is ex reg force divers. If you see a rental with a combatdiver badge and he/she was not in the regs before he/she has no respect of what needs to be earned.
mike

 

[043]

Chimo brother Beaver!!!!

 

[Sapper6]

Good posts Diver409.   I've been a combat diver since 1991 and your comments are quite true, particularly when it comes to other trades wanting to take the combat diver course.   As you've stated, there is certainly more to being a combat diver than just surface (combat) swimming.   Just keeping 'current' with CABA/LWDSS/AGA is hard enough within the Regts, let alone an Inf Bn which has other competing tasks.   The diving equipment keeps getting more complicated as we get the resources to do our jobs in hostile conditions, the rig for MCW being an example.

Unfortunately, due to the fact that the Canadian Army no longer swims its vehicles, the operational requirement to maintain combat divers has not been exercised since the Winnipeg Floods in 1997 - and even then it was a push to call "inspecting the temporary dykes" an "operational dive".   I just don't think that under the current political climate, and with the Canadian Army's involvement in Afghanistan (very little water there - last time I checked) there will be an opportunity to use Combat Divers.   As an aside - it was only through the sheer will of a few Engineer Commanders and staff officers that a combat dive capability was established in BiH for Op PALLADIUM.   As far as I can tell, combat divers were only used once to help in recovering a LAV that fell into the water in Split.

Bottom line - like most capabilities in the Canadian Forces we exist as insurance for the "what if" scenario.   Can the CF risk the liability of not having a combat diver capability the next time it needs combat engineering tasks completed in or near in-land waterways?   We'll see.

Sapper6
Dive Coin #237