All things Charlottesville (merged)

[Jarnhamar]

It's been like that since Trump was a serious threat for Presidency. The sheep just repeat what they're told by mainstream media and Facebook.

It's brutal. My young kids both independently talk about how Trump is racist. I actually had to explain to my kid going into grade 3 what racism was. My oldest could only articulate 'he just is' when I asked her why before changing the topic.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... My oldest could only articulate 'he just is' when I asked her why before changing the topic.

#UniversityReady  ;D

 

[kkwd]

A report from politico.com concerning antifa. They say they obtained unreleased documents that call this group domestic terrorists. The document was compiled under the Obama administration. This is a early report so watch for more on this. You can read it and take from it what you want. I could not find a thing about this on the FBI site. If you do a search of antifa you get no results at all. There is a curious thing on dhs.gov. When you enter antifa it will take you to related searches of "antifa terrorists" but clicking that link takes you to the homepage.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

 

[mariomike]

A report from politico.com concerning antifa.

Someone created an Anti-fa thread. It has since been taken down. ( I didn't put it up, or take it down. )

So, I will reply here.

These are just my non-expert opinions from what I have read in books about the rise and fall of Nazism,

To me, the lesson seemed to be that violence against it only helped sustain a dynamic at which they prevailed.
It required a massive exertion of state power to defeat it, not private personal violence.

Like I said, that's just my non-expert opinion.

Regarding terrorism deaths in the US over the last 25 years, I read that Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists did.
Ref: August 14, 2017
Terrorism Deaths by Ideology: Is Charlottesville an Anomaly?
https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly

Seeing the militiamen march in Charlottesville reminded me of something I saw many years ago,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUYstjXGiQ

 

[Brad Sallows]

The US is nowhere near as weak as Weimar Germany.  Nazism is going nowhere in the US.

 

[mariomike]

The US is nowhere near as weak as Weimar Germany.  Nazism is going nowhere in the US.

I'm not an expert on the Weimar Republic, but I found this of interest,

Trump and Weimar Germany
https://weimarstudies.wordpress.com/2016/12/04/trump-and-weimar-germany/

The Weimar Studies Network (WSN) is an international platform for researchers and academics working on the history of the Weimar Republic.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've taken myself out of the political fora here. I just wanted to stop in and thank a few individuals who decided to demonize me over my concerns that ANTIFA, BLM and the rest of the alt-left were violent and untrustworthy.  You were right, I was out of line saying both sides are equal when it comes to violence and law breaking. These left thugs are worse. And the democrats that are supplying them with hate and support, including the RINOs. Well, until they themselves came under the spotlight of hypocracy. Then they flip flopped like the political cockroaches they are. But thanks for the great insight into your own psyche and predjudices. Of course, I could never keep up with your ever changing direction depending who you want to demonize next. But continue being apologists for the left. Reply if you wish, but those involved are all on ignore and I've blocked the political threads from my feed, so I won't have to listen to your hypocritical hyperboyle pushing your narrative that these thugs are simply concerned citizens and curious townfolk, observing rallies.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

I've taken myself out of the political fora here. I just wanted to stop in and thank a few individuals who decided to demonize me over my concerns that ANTIFA, BLM and the rest of the alt-left were violent and untrustworthy.  You were right, I was out of line saying both sides are equal when it comes to violence and law breaking. These left thugs are worse. And the democrats that are supplying them with hate and support, including the RINOs. Well, until they themselves came under the spotlight of hypocracy. Then they flip flopped like the political cockroaches they are. But thanks for the great insight into your own psyche and predjudices. Of course, I could never keep up with your ever changing direction depending who you want to demonize next. But continue being apologists for the left. Reply if you wish, but those involved are all on ignore and I've blocked the political threads from my feed, so I won't have to listen to your hypocritical hyperboyle pushing your narrative that these thugs are simply concerned citizens and curious townfolk, observing rallies.

Yeah, I've pretty much stopped trying to debate with people on here about Politics, lol.. it's like talking to a wall. People will never change their opinion until there's some incident that red pills them. All you can do is eat popcorn and laugh. On a positive note though the antifa are showing up a lot in mainstream media now as thugs who attack people for no reason, so at least some people are waking up. BLM is a joke, lol. The fact that anyone takes them seriously is hilarious.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yeah, I've pretty much stopped trying to debate with people on here about Politics, lol.. it's like talking to a wall. People will never change their opinion until there's some incident that red pills them.

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

8)

 

[kkwd]

I've taken myself out of the political fora here. I just wanted to stop in and thank a few individuals who decided to demonize me over my concerns that ANTIFA, BLM and the rest of the alt-left were violent and untrustworthy.  You were right, I was out of line saying both sides are equal when it comes to violence and law breaking. These left thugs are worse. And the democrats that are supplying them with hate and support, including the RINOs. Well, until they themselves came under the spotlight of hypocracy. Then they flip flopped like the political cockroaches they are. But thanks for the great insight into your own psyche and predjudices. Of course, I could never keep up with your ever changing direction depending who you want to demonize next. But continue being apologists for the left. Reply if you wish, but those involved are all on ignore and I've blocked the political threads from my feed, so I won't have to listen to your hypocritical hyperboyle pushing your narrative that these thugs are simply concerned citizens and curious townfolk, observing rallies.

I just can't see how antifa are viewed as saviours. They will not protect or defend or save you or your family from anything. They state they are anti-nazi, maybe, but they are truthfully anti-everything. Their goal is to bring down the whole system. They even have taken to supporting North Korea and using their propaganda in their communiques. They even had the gall to oppose the UN sanctions on North Korea.  They have plans through strikes and occupations to bring down the US government. But OK, anyone that hates nazis can't be all bad, to paraphrase WC Fields. By the way, Soros is mentioned, you knew that of course.

Last month, masked Antifa thugs in Berkeley, California, called for the destruction of the United States. "No Trump, no wall, no USA at all!" the large gathering of black bloc-attired protesters chanted at a conservative “No to Marxism” rally. The same weekend Antifa worked with San Francisco officials to prevent the innocuous conservative group Patriot Prayer from holding a small rally at a federal park. As this writer previously observed, thanks to Antifa, the Left now has the power to dictate what is and is not acceptable speech in California and many parts of the country.

After the UN Security Council unanimously resolved August 5 to slap North Korea with more sanctions, both groups stoutly defended the nightmarish Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, the Daily Caller reports.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/267802/two-major-antifa-groups-spout-north-korean-matthew-vadum

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/23/inside-the-lefts-plans-to-occupy-trump-215518?lo=ap_d1

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

8)

That goes both ways as well. As much as the "aggrieved" person argues, neither side in any political argument on here is particularly willing to listen to any other opinions or have anything resembling a rational argument (including said individual). Before taking a victory lap, people should really take that on board and consider it for a minute. Differences of opinion are fine, but neither side gives or takes anything.

As for antifa- it's considered a terrorist organization and I still don't see why people are sooooooo concerned with belabouring the point.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

As for antifa- it's considered a terrorist organization and I still don't see why people are sooooooo concerned with belabouring the point.

Because people on the left refuse to condemn them.

 

[FJAG]

Because people on the left refuse to condemn them.

You're generalizing. Most people on the left are against AntiFa and their tactics, just like most people on the right are against Neo-Nazis, the KKK and White Supremacists.

The political spectrum is more like a bell curve than two distinct points of congregation. By far the most of us are grouped around the centre (I personally sit just right of centre) and you have to go a long way to the left to find "no-apologists" of AntiFa.

[cheers]

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

You're generalizing. Most people on the left are against AntiFa and their tactics, just like most people on the right are against Neo-Nazis, the KKK and White Supremacists.

The political spectrum is more like a bell curve than two distinct points of congregation. By far the most of us are grouped around the centre (I personally sit just right of centre) and you have to go a long way to the left to find "no-apologists" of AntiFa.

[cheers]

:goodpost:

I, like you, tend to sit right of centre, if only slightly.

I believe in fiscal restraint but support most social measures such as legalization of abortion, same sex marriage, trans rights, etc etc ad nauseum. I also support enforcing Canadian immigration rules and stopping illegal immigration. I support Canadian participation in NATO and maintaining a strong military, but don't support a war on Russia.

I think most people are generally a mix of right and left wing ideas, which is why I think the political scale is a poor substitution for logical thought. It allows people to pick "teams" and then, like people do with football/hockey teams, just pick the other side as the "bad" guys and maintain a constant state of bickering and asinine name calling.

Saying "the left" is anything is as ridiculous as saying "the right" is anything. Both, aside from their extremes, tend to have more of a left and right mix than they let on. As an example- A friend of mine is as socially liberal as they get. Believes in equal everything, etc, etc, etc. He also is a strong supporter of the monarchy. How can one say that we are all equal but then support an institution that believes that divine right to govern was appointed by god due to the ability to pull a sword from a rock (or whatever the origin story is).

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Bird_Gunner45] .

As for antifa- it's considered a terrorist organization and I still don't see why people are sooooooo concerned with belabouring the point.
[/quote]

Perhaps somewhat of the same reason some people can't seem to help themselves from bringing up Trump every chance they can.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Perhaps somewhat of the same reason some people can't seem to help themselves from bringing up Trump/Trudeau every chance they can.

There, fixed it for you.

This is not a left wing/right wing only issue. Both sides are guilty of the same thing. It's just that those who are too far to one end have trouble reconciling their own beliefs and see the "other" as the problem. The 80% of people in the centre can see good and bad of both sides and any argument (though admittedly I have trouble seeing much positive with Trump I can agree with some of his ideas).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Naw, until Canadians start blaming Trudeau for hurricanes and the solar eclipse he's just a light weight  ;D

But since this is about Charlottesville I'm glad to see the media ceasing their love affair with ANTIFA. I'm guessing some of it might have to do with the journalists being assaulted. They know when to get off a sinking ship.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

You're generalizing. Most people on the left are against AntiFa and their tactics

Ha, NOW maybe. A month ago? Two? Nah. They were the left's unsung heroes. Nice try though.

Actually I wouldn't even say now, most of the leftists on this board will refuse to condemn Antifa even today.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-antifa-kass-met-0830-20170829-column.html

"There has been no concerted media effort to pressure Democratic politicians to denounce Democratic muscle. So Democratic politicians have been relatively silent, as have many of their loyal pundits. A few pundits of the left have even compared the thugs with American soldiers hitting Omaha beach, a ridiculous attempt to legitimize the violence."

But since this is about Charlottesville I'm glad to see the media ceasing their love affair with ANTIFA.

Yes, it's a shame that noone gave a crap until they played off the impetus they got from Trump's presidency and the initial Berkeley incident, oh and built up their member base.

 

[mariomike]

How much of the Antifa hysteria is real, and how much is fake?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=fake+antifa&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=C3awWYjFGuGfXuebtfAI&gws_rd=ssl

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

How much of the Antifa hysteria is real, and how much is fake?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=fake+antifa&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=C3awWYjFGuGfXuebtfAI&gws_rd=ssl

You're kind of proving my point by blaming some made up boogyman "fake antifa" instead of admitting that is just what they do, and what they have been doing since they've been around.