Alberta Schools; pick your own gender and bathroom

[runormal]

I have never understood why this bathroom thing is so hard to solve. Is it so hard for society to just start build public bathrooms as private stalls with its own sink and mirror in it, and this "problem" ceases to exist?

A few issues,

Lots of places where built before this "problem" became mainstream and accepted and thus would be cost prohibitive to renovate washrooms to benefit a few whereas I'd argue a greater portion of students would be benefited by buying new textbooks.

Point two I'd argue this is an legitimate security issue by building individual washrooms. Teachers can't easily survey the washrooms, as you could easily smoke, do drugs, deal drugs, have sex/fool around.

While you could say lets build 1 or two gender neutral bath rooms if said washroom is closer than the boys/girls bathroom, guess what I'm now going to be trans. Then the people who need it won't be able to use it..

It is a very delicate situation imo.

 

[ballz]

Point two I'd argue this is an legitimate security issue by building individual washrooms. Teachers can't easily survey the washrooms, as you could easily smoke, do drugs, deal drugs, have sex/fool around.

I wasn't specifically talking about schools, I meant public areas in general... malls... airports... restaurants... but yes, I still think schools.... I think some of those concerns are a bit waaay heavy on the "sheltering the children" variety.

 

[runormal]

I wasn't specifically talking about schools, I meant public areas in general... malls... airports... restaurants... but yes, I still think schools.... I think some of those concerns are a bit waaay heavy on the "sheltering the children" variety.

Trust me I'm all for kids climbing trees, falling down and breaking their arm at recess. I've went from wooden playground equipment, to wooden/plastic equipment to minimal equipment "because it isn't safe". I grew up in the 90's-00's.

People did all of the above in my high-school washrooms (because it is one if not the only the place without cameras). I really don't see how making individual complete washrooms would make it any better. Of course kids will also do all of the above, but I could only see it being worse by creating said washrooms. Likewise I still argue that in terms of schools money would be much better spent on providing newer learning aids, ideally textbooks.

Wouldn't the easier solution be to remain the status quo in terms of infrastructure and just make everything gender neutral? Urinals are a landmine (I think?) because someone would likely complain that men are being over favored as well. I know that gender neutral washrooms exist in Europe. 

 

[RedcapCrusader]

I've dealt with more women committing to lewd and criminal acts in Men's Washrooms more than the opposite.

Honestly, the easiest solution is not the best solution for everyone. It will take generational change to create the perfect and safe environment that we seek.

I believe UToronto are already dealing with issues with unisex/transgender friendly Washrooms and are going back to Male/Female Washrooms due to a voyeurism issue.

I believe personally that the easiest solution is to leave the Washrooms alone, and let the people use whatever washroom they wish and deal with the trouble makers as they come up.

It's almost the same thing with badges, instead of taking away badges from everyone, just deal with those that abuse it as theu come up. You'd be surprised at how little of an issue it really is, rather than punishing everyone as a whole and making it out to be a pandemic.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So we need to accommodate various LGBBTTQAA lifestyles and identities in school.  That's good. 

But what about people who identify as animals? (more accurately "animals" that are stuck in human bodies).  AKA Otherkin.

If someone is a Panromantic Bi-gender (non-binary) genderqueer who identifies as both Wolf-kin and Fox-Kin (but cat-hearted in the latter) should we not also support their animal identities and support any special requirements they have?
Is it fair to have a deer-kin student in class with a bunch of wolf-kin if the deer-kin is intimidated and feels it's an unsafe environment for hir? Should we set hir up with their own classroom and a separate teacher?  Should bat-kin be offered night classes which are more inline with their biological clock and nocturnal temperament?  Dog-kin may piss on bushes or growl at meat, are we violating their rights by interfering?

I'm sure I sound sardonic but this is really a thing.  Since it appears we can decide what our own gender is and how we will be interacted with thus (like Bruce's example of bearded biological males in female prisons) it only stands to reason I can identify as a bear (and maybe sniff around for extra leave so I can hibernate).

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

We've lost the plot, that is all.

 

[Maxadia]

I have never understood why this bathroom thing is so hard to solve. Is it so hard for society to just start build public bathrooms as private stalls with its own sink and mirror in it, and this "problem" ceases to exist?

When you look at it that way it is hard to understand.

When you realize that no one is really asking for private stalls to be built, or existing bathrooms to be modified, but rather to be able to choose whatever bathroom you like as they are currently laid out, then you can see where there might be issues.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Well this makes the discussion more military related, and might show where the military might be heading in a couple years once the current generation of kids grow up.

http://terminallance.com/2016/01/08/terminal-lance-new-corps/

 

[Jarnhamar]

Dr John Money [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money] is a sexologist/psychologist who it seems is credited with pioneering the whole sex doesn't equal gender, sexual identity biology of gender thing.

The case it looks like he bases his theories and work from is from a Canadian man, David Reimer who ended up with quite the tragic story. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer]

 

[a_majoor]

Of course this is not about "safe" bathrooms or any of the other nonsense being spouted by the supporters, but rather about power. They will define what is acceptable and force you to comply (women who object to having biological males in their washrooms are already becoming victims to this).

The only real way to deal with this is to either make multiple small, individual bathrooms which only accommodate one person at a time (in which case the sign only says "occupied" or "vacant", or put a sign on bathroom doors saying XX or XY, and you will use the washroom according to your chromosomes, not what you might want to imagine.

The actual result of this is a small minority of people are going to run into reality in the form of violent expulsion from the "wrong" washrooms. I can only imagine the "human rights" hearing where Muslim women forcibly ejected a biological male from their washroom (and most likely delivered a severe beating in the process).

 

[Maxadia]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IJH5AR0CuRI

 

[McG]

And DND follows:

New DND offices will have gender-neutral toilets
Amanda Connolly
iPolitics
04 Apr 2016

Months after a damning report found the Canadian Forces was fostering a "toxic" culture towards women and LGBT members, the new offices for the Department of National Defence will have gender-neutral toilets, iPolitics has learned.

"Some gender-neutral washrooms will be available in the [four] buildings currently being rehabilitated in the first phase of work at the Carling Campus," wrote Public Services and Procurement Canada spokesperson Pierre Alain Bujold in an email to iPolitics. "We also intend to install such washrooms in other campus buildings, in upcoming phases of work."

The Department of National Defence is in the midst of consolidating its 47 offices across the National Capital Region into seven offices, including the former Nortel main office on Carling Avenue.

The first 1,000 of roughly 12,000 DND employees had been expected to begin moving offices early this year but structural problems at the Carling Campus have delayed those plans.

It's not clear exactly when the move will take place.

Over the past year, the subject of accommodation and support for LGBT Canadian Forces members has been in the spotlight.

In March 2015, former Supreme Court justice Marie Deschamps released a damning report that blasted senior military leaders for allowing misogyny and intolerance to take root, and called on them to take concrete action to stomp it out.

“There is an underlying sexualized culture in the CAF that is hostile to women and LGBTQ members, and conductive to more serious incidents of sexual harassment and assault,” she wrote at the time. “Cultural change is therefore key."

Since then, the military has been working to increase awareness among its members about what kinds of behaviours constitute sexual harassment and assault as part of what's been coined 'Operation Honour.'

As well, it announced the creation of a new independent sexual assault reporting centre, which was one of the key recommendations from the Deschamps report given that the existing policy of reporting harassment and assault up the chain of command could deter members from filing complaints against accusers who are part of the unit or who are their superiors.

According to a progress report Deschamps issued in February 2016, the new Sexual Misconduct Response Centre received 246 contacts between mid-September and December 31.

Of the 204, 156 of the individuals were members of the Canadian Forces and half were female while the other half were male.

As of January 29, there are eight investigations underway into complaints made to the Centre.

Bujold said the department decided to include gender neutral toilets in its new offices because it recognizes it has responsibilities to its LGBT employees.

"The decision on whether to establish unisex (or gender neutral) washrooms in a given facility is primarily a response to a duty to accommodate," Bujold said.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And DND follows:

:facepalm:

 

[Journeyman]

.....half were female while the other half were male. 

Well, it looks like "rehabilitation" is coming along equally. 

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Um, I was at the hospital in Kingston not too long ago, waiting for a German student to finish his medical appointment.

The washrooms there are in use BY ALL GENDERS!!!!! Yep, a single washroom with a single toilet that can be used by both genders. Flush after use. They have existed for many years. Yep, there's a feminine hygiene box beside the toilet, I didn't use it. I survived.

OMGWTFJTF2NINJAPANIC.

Also, I am not sure if some of you have considered the other issues with the gender friendly washrooms: Who is going to check your junk?

What if you, as a male, identifying as a male, go into a men's washroom and someone there feels you aren't the "real thing"? They'll ask you to prove it? Call the police so that they can prove it? Make you whip out your penis? Have you thought about YOUR rights in this case? You're asking/suggesting the same thing for trans people when it doesn't matter.

I personally don't care what your junk is... I have used gender neutral washrooms in many places, once you get used to it, you don't even notice it. I have been standing at a urinal, pissing while a female was behind me washing their hands at a sink after usinig the stall to take a dump/piss. Who cares?

Also, you have been using washrooms with transgendered/gay/straight people forever, you just didn't know it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll be offended of these gender neutral washrooms have urinals in them.  I also plan to raise a stink in Wainwright this year when I come across a portable toilet that has female written across the door (or padre, cook, medics).

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I'll be offended of these gender neutral washrooms have urinals in them.  I also plan to raise a stink in Wainwright this year when I come across a portable toilet that has female written across the door (or padre, cook, medics).

Oh dang, I hadn't even thought about the fact that we (the army at least) have been using gender neutral porta potties for decades.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I'll be offended of these gender neutral washrooms have urinals in them.  I also plan to raise a stink in Wainwright this year when I come across a portable toilet that has female written across the door (or padre, cook, medics).

While I don't particularly care where the padre craps, special attention should be given to the latrine facilities for cooks and medics.  Ever hear the adage "don't s**t where you eat".  Well, you shouldn't shit where the guys/gals who prepare your food shit.  The same goes with separating patients and medical staff.  It has to do with infection control.

 

[kratz]

The residence at NSCC is undergoing renovation to it's first bathroom (1 of 8), and both the new bathroom and the current one on that floor are gender neutral. The bathrooms in the rest on the campus or the other 13 campuses have not been reassigned....yet.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Oh dang, I hadn't even thought about the fact that we (the army at least) have been using gender neutral porta potties for decades.

We sure have.  I love the idea of gender neutral bathrooms at work. I hate when you have 400 men with access to 6 toilets and 8 women with access to 6 toilets.  It's time we end women's monopoly on coveted washroom space.

While I don't particularly care where the padre craps, special attention should be given to the latrine facilities for cooks and medics.  Ever hear the adage "don't s**t where you eat".  Well, you shouldn't shit where the guys/gals who prepare your food shit.  The same goes with separating patients and medical staff.  It has to do with infection control.

You got me there 100%  Medical staff and cooks should have their own segregated facilities for infection control, segregated being the key word though.