Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists

[McG]

It has been a few years now since the Engineer Jump Troop was stood down. It served the Airborne Regiment prior to disbandment and outlived the regiment by a couple of years. With the recent demise of Pioneers, Jump Coys will no longer be able to look within their own Bn’s for even the most limited of parachute capable Engineering support.

Should Engineer Jump Troops be re-established? I believe each Combat Engineer Regiment should have a Jump Troop to support the Bde’s Jump Coy. There are still Engineers qualified as parachutists, but they are spread across the Regiments. If a jump troop were required to support an airborne operation, it would lack the cohesion and readiness of an standing Jump Troop.

 

[Armymedic]

I have to agree with you on this point of para qualified engineers replacing the pioneers in support of Para Coys. Their disbandment in 99 was just another step toward the total disovling of all para capabilities in the CF. I had the pleasure of supporting the jump troop in the yr prior to the final engineer jump. Nobody works harder then engineers in the field. It doesn‘t cost that much to have 12 maroon beret wearing engineers, bring them back.

 

[Yard Ape]

There was a time when I supported the "All-Arms Airborne Rebirth." However, I think it is more important to identify the potential scope of future Airborne Ops.

If future Ops are likely to be at the Battalion level, then we should have Engineers and combat support with jump capability . . . but then we should also have a standing Airborne Battalion. If future Ops are likely to be at the Coy level, then it would be better to increase the Jump Coys to four Rifle Platoons.

It would be terribly inefficient to maintain a minimum level of Jump capable combat support in every Brigade. Besides, CAR survived with only one Engineer Jump Troop. You a recommending 3!?


Yard Ape

 

[McG]

I believe there should be one jump Tp to support each Jump Coy, and if the CAR were to reform I believe it should have a full Cbt Engr Sqn to support it.

 

[Marti]

i have to agree with Yard Ape, the likelyhood of one of the jump companies being deployed on its own and needing engineer support sounds pretty unlikely. but in the case of the CAR being revived in any capacity, it would definately require an Airborne engineer unit attached, and now that mortars are on the way out, an artillery unit as well.

 

[Student Sapper]

Besides, CAR survived with only one Engineer Jump Troop.

I did some research, and it appears that the Airborne had an Engr Tp and a Pioneer Pl.

Based on a comparison of the two groups, the Airborne effectivly had two Engineer Troops.

It is also my understanding that because there were not enough Engineers, the Infantry had to carry our kit in Afghanistan.

 

[Student Sapper]

I have also discovered that the Airborne had a full Engineer Squadron as part of its order of battle. That was lost the same time the Artillery was removed, when the Regiment moved to Pet.

 

[RJG]

I just finished my SQ and am going to do my QL3 next summer, I was wondering how hard it is to become an Engineer Jumper. Because if I couldn't take that course I would probably swiitch trades.

 

[Armymedic]

No harder then any trade other then infantry...2 CER had a jump section (post Airborne Regt) until May 2000, and still put Sappers on the course.

 

[RJG]

I heard that trades such as engineers only send trooper per year :S.

 

[Spr.Earl]

All the Regiments have or try to keep a Jump Section going.
Normaly try to send at least 3 or 4 every year if there are slots.
A Jump Course along with the Combat Divers course are the two most sought after course's in our trade.
Both are very rewarding once you get them.
May be McG can expound further as to Jump Courses today.

 

[McG]

Each CER has a light troop.  In this troop the regiments will try to keep one unofficial jump section and the entire Tp HQ jump qualified.  However, I have known units to try and get everyone in the light troop through basic para, and the majority of the troop's SHQ jump qualified.

It is not uncommon for an Engineer to get basic para.  I have it despite not ever having been in the light troop.

 

[armybuck041]

As it stands right now, 2 CER no longer has any Light Troops' in its organization.

Both of the Field Squadrons are based on the M113 and do not have any "Jump" Sections per say.

In 1998ish, 2 CER lost its remaining hard Para Positions and its last true "Jump" Section.

Regt Recce, which reports to the CO has a good mix of Combat Divers and Para qualified pers although its numbers are very reduced.

Getting on a Para Crse is still the same as the past. You must inform your C of C of your interest in going and be of good merit and physical fitness.

 

[Spr.Earl]

In responce to this question I still think we Engineers should still keep at least 1 section Jump qualified
(I think we need at least a Troop Jump qualified) in each Regiment and must cross train with the Jump Companies in the Infantry every chance we get.
But alas we don't have the Air Craft or the resources any more to sustain this capability.

 

[Kat Stevens]

A full on combat team gets by with a field troop +, why would you suggest a rifle company of cherry berries gets a full field troop in support?  As for that infantry humping our gear comment, not in my day, young man.

 

[McG]

A full on combat team gets by with a field troop +, why would you suggest a rifle company of cherry berries gets a full field troop in support?

This paints a distorted picture as a the needs of a cbt tm or mechanized rifle company are not the same as the needs of a light rifle company, and the capabilities of a mechanized Fd Tp + (a full field troop and half an armoured troop) are significantly more than the capabilities of a light engineer troop.

 

[SprCForr]

Ref the kit remark: Not in anyones day. Hauling a couple Carl G rounds or a box or two of 7.62 linked or few mortar rounds doesn't count. That for crew served wpns and everyone hauls for those things.

Remember towards the end the CAR was organised like a Bn around the three commandos. They were supported with a Tp of Engrs. When the CAR was organised as a Btl Gp/Regt it was entitled to an Engr Sqn (-) which consisted of a Tp plus a Tp made from elements of 25 Sp Sqn. Certainly not a full Sqn.

A coy of anything should only get a Tp of Engineers in sp in only exceptional circumstances and then it would only be for a specific phase of an operation. For example in a Res Dml, a coy could be tasked as the dml gd and a Fd Tp assigned to set up the target(depending on size and complexity) after the target was set up the Tp would move off to other tasks leaving behind a Fd Sect or det to act as the firing party.

A light coy cannot advantageously employ a Tp (lt or ortherwise) beyond an immediate task. The tasks a light company could expect to recieve are normally able to be handled by the attached Fd Sect. If the attached Fd Sect cannot manage the problem, then the troop would attach assets as required. The scope of work at coy level is the limiting factor.

 

[McG]

. . . but, if the Parachute troop does not exist, then it is not available to support on those tasks where it is required.   I would suggest that a light company could fully employ a light troop during an advance through complex terrain (just as a cbt tm could employ a mech tp + in an advance through open & close country).  

I have not heard of infantry hauling our kit.   I have heard of infantry being used to haul explosives from the resupply helicopter loads to task sites where engineers were destroying caves.   Anyone could have carried the explosives, but the engineers were working to prepairing charges with the demolitions they carried concurrently with the movement of additional explosives.

 

[McG]

I did some research, and it appears that the Airborne had an Engr Tp and a Pioneer Pl.

Did the Airborne Regt have a Pnr Pl in the Cbt Sp Cdo?  Were Pnr formally integrated into the Regt in other ways?

 

[doublearr]

It's nice to see there are still those who are interested in pursuing the Art of the Warrior.   Once you have fininshed all your trades trg.   Stay fit and then put your name in for the Basic Parachutist Crse.   If you CoC deems you are able to complete the course successfully , you'll be tested  by PSP .   If succesful you will be sent to CPC to conduct Basic Parachute Trg.   Good Luck.

Airborne Ubique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!