Air Force's CADPAT name-tag & rank

[Yard Ape]

What is up with the new name-tags & slip-ons of the Air Force?!

We spend extra $$$ to put swords, a bird, or an anchor beside the the all names so they can be recognized as "not army."  But its not enough!

First the Air Force decided thier bird would be after the name (unlike Army & Navy which have the graphic first).

Now all thier name tags have the border & text in blue (that you cannot see from a distance), and the slip-on has rank & unit/trade/"CANADA" in the same blue (still barely visible.  Will units be expected to maintain a stash of regimental slip-ons in blue for the posted in Air Force pers?  (Some RSM is going to snap when he sees this show-up in the field while on an Ex)


I've got a quick money saving idea.  Lets stop throwing funds into "look at me I am special" projects.


:fifty: :fifty: :fifty: :fifty: :fifty: :fifty:

 

[bossi]

(sigh ... why do I feel like I'm going to regret this in the morning ... ?  Oh, well - maybe I'll get a boy scout badge for "being kind to our feathered friends" ... and, after all - they did let me sit up front once ...)

So - as much as it pains me to defend the Air Force ...

First of all - let's "assume/agree" that they've made a reasonable decision to have the air force and navy identifiers on the name tags (after all - when we're "cammed up" in CADPAT, sometimes it's useful to be able to tell if somebody's a swabbie or a zoomie ...)

Okay, since they've got to reset the machine in order to sew the albatross or anchor instead of the manly crossed swords of the Army, it's not really the end of the world if they also change the colour of thread slightly.

Similarly, Army guys like to be able to wear their regimental flashes - air force and navy guys have pride in their service, too - so, "fair's fair".  We've got more than enough battles to fight, so let's choose them wisely (and, not fight amongst ourselves) - really, it doesn't really cost us that much to be magnanimous/gracious.

Also, I just finished reading some articles to the effect that the other services are fighting retention battles similar to the Army's - if a little coloured thread helps morale, so be it.

 

[ZipperHead]

I agree with Yard Ape on this one. To me, it is an exercise in the "I'm special and different, so let everybody know it". In the Armour Corps, there are still people who think that we shouldn't wear the wide brimmed field hat (boonie cap), because we have to retain our "identity". Well, I suppose driving around in a tank or Coyote should be sufficient enough. And we have to wear helmets one those vehicles now, anyway, so it's kind of moot. I'm a big fan of not getting my sun-catchers (ears) sun-burnt anymore, and as a bonus, I don't have to worry about having a "field" beret now.

I think the bird on the name tape should be sufficient, and the fact the the Air Force guys boots aren't dirty should be the big giveaway (and the pillow marks on the face from their stay in the 5 star hotel). I find though that some of the most hard core Air Force types (in my limited experience with "real" Air Force people) are the ones who are Air element, as opposed to hard Air trades (ie. a clerk who wears blue vs a flight engineer). They are the ones seeking for a special identity I think, not the guys who spend time in the air.

This issue should die the death of the Combat Bra, but the Air Force has a big kick ass budget to blow on things like this, so let them waste their money on that, and maybe they'll have to spend some time sleeping in mod tent, the 4 man sponge (4 man tent)or horror of horrors, a trench.

Al

 

[Military Brat]

I do believe there is also that same colour of blue in the actual uniform as well.

P.S. I don't think sailors are being issued CADPAT.

 

[Spr.Earl]

I do believe there is also that same colour of blue in the actual uniform as well.

P.S. I don't think sailors are being issued CADPAT.

They sre getting CADPAT water wings.

 

[MG34]

Too bad for our fine feathered friends that the blue crappy name tag and rank are not authorized for Airforce pers serving with Army units,I can't wait for the whining to start on that. ;D

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

I read a CANFORGEN about this the other day.  The Air Force is doing away with its work dress as a cost saving measure, and they're all going to wear CADPAT from now on instead.  They're going to wear it with blue undershirts, however, and they're going to use blue rank slipons with it too.

 

[AmmoTech90]

MG34

Where did you read that Airforce pers are not authorized to wear it when serving with Army units?  The CANFORGEN is quite clear that the blue name tapes and slip ons are to be worn at all times TW LWCC (Green CADPAT) is worn.  The blue tee-shirt is to be worn in garrison when serving in land operations, and the member may be ordered to wear the green on domestic or overseas trg and operations conducted with the Army.  The blue items are not authorized for wear with anything other than temperate CADPAT.

Just waiting for my purple rank and nametape...

 

[MG34]

2CMBG  policy,I wouldn't count on the blue rank being oround for too much longer either.

 

[Zoomie]

2CMBG   policy,I wouldn't count on the blue rank being oround for too much longer either.

Sorry MG34, 2CMBG policy does not supercede 1CAD directives. 

Blue thread on CADPAT is a reality and is here to stay.  It's been in the US Airforce for decades now. 

 

[AmmoTech90]

Zoomie beat me to it.

The CANFORGEN is a CLS/CAS coordinated message.  I was wondering if the Bde commander could over-rule CLS direction?  I wonder how the Squadron Chief at 427 would react to being told he couldn't wear his element identifiers?  Or how an Infanteer attached to a Air Force unit would react to being told to wear blue threaded rank and an Army name tape embroidered in blue with blue swords?  Some how I think the Air Force would respect the fact that he is Land element and allow him to continue to wear green.

Can't we all just get along  :

 

[Bzzliteyr]

CANFORGEN 070/04 CAS 031 171030Z MAY 04
AIR FORCE OPERATIONAL CLOTHING
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. CANFORGEN 016/02 CAS 014 271300Z FEB 02
B. CFP 265 CHAPTER 6 ANNEX D



BASED ON VCDS DIRECTION TO UNDERTAKE COST SAVING MEASURES WHERE POSSIBLE, INCLUDING THE CONVERGENCE OF GARMENT DESIGN, CAS DIRECTED ADOPTION OF THE CADPAT COMBAT CLOTHING AS OPERATIONAL DRESS. REF A ANNOUNCED THE APPROVAL OF PROJECT 328, ACQUISITION OF LIGHT WEIGHT COMBAT CLOTHING (LWCC) AS THE AIR FORCE OPERATIONAL DRESS. THE CONVERGED DESIGN COMBATS WILL BECOME THE DRESS OF THE DAY FOR MOST AIR FORCE PERSONNEL ON ISSUE AND ORDER OF DRESS 3E (WORK DRESS) WILL EVENTUALLY DISAPPEAR. THIS CONVERGENCE INITIATIVE BETWEEN THE AIR FORCE AND ARMY HAS EXTENDED FROM COMBAT SHIRT AND PANTS IDENTIFIED AS LIGHT WEIGHT COMBAT CLOTHING (LWCC) TO THE NEW INTEGRATED CLOTHING ENSEMBLE (ICE)


AS NOTED IN REF A, AIR FORCE LEADERSHIP IS WELL AWARE OF THE NEED TO PRESERVE AIR FORCE IDENTITY WITH THE NEW CLOTHING. TO ACHIEVE THIS AIM, THE AIR FORCE IS INTRODUCING DISTINCTIVE AIR FORCE IDENTIFIERS TO BE WORN WITH THE LWCC. APPROVED AIR FORCE IDENTIFIERS TO BE WORN BY ALL AIR DEU PERSONNEL WITH THE LWCC ARE AS FOLLOWS:


DISTINCTIVE RANKS, BLUE THREAD ON CADPAT BACKGROUND,


DISTINCTIVE NAMETAPE, BLUE THREAD ON CADPAT BACKGROUND AND THE AIR FORCE INSIGNIA (EAGLE) WORN ON THE LEFT OF THE NAMETAPE, AND


DARK BLUE T-SHIRT


THE DISTINCTIVE RANK AND NAMETAPE ARE TO BE WORN AT ALL TIMES. AUTHORITY FOR WEAR OF THE BLUE T-SHIRT IS DEPENDENT ON THE OPERATIONAL CONTEXT AND THE UNIT THE MBR IS POSTED TO WITHIN THE CF AS FOLLOWS:


FOR AIR DEU PERS EMPLOYED IN UNITS CONDUCTING AIR OPERATIONS, THE DARK BLUE T-SHIRT IS APPROVED FOR WEAR IN OPERATIONS AND TRG IN CANADA. USE OF THE BLUE T-SHIRT ON OVERSEAS OPERATIONS WILL BE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE THEATRE COMMANDER BASED ON THE OPERATIONAL SITUATION


FOR AIR DEU DESIGNATED PERS POSTED TO UNITS CONDUCTING LAND OPERATIONS, THE BLUE T-SHIRT IS AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR IN GARRISON WITH LWCC. MBR MAY BE ORDERED TO WEAR THE ISSUED GREEN T-SHIRT WHEN CONDUCTING TRG AND OPERATIONS IN CANADA AND OVERSEAS, AND


FOR AIR DEU DESIGNATED PERS POSTED TO UNITS CONTROLLED BY OTHER THAN THE LAND FORCE OR AIR FORCE, THE BLUE T-SHIRT IS AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH LWCC AS PART OF WORK DRESS FOR DAY TO DAY DUTIES WITHIN CANADA. UNIT CO S SHALL PROVIDE DIRECTION FOR WEAR IN CANADA FOR UNIT TRG OR OPERATIONAL TASKINGS


PENDING AVAILABILITY OF THE BLUE T-SHIRT, AS AN INTERIM MEASURE, AIR DEU PERSONNEL MAY WEAR THE CURRENTLY ISSUED GREEN T-SHIRT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THEY ARE ISSUED WITH THE DARK BLUE T-SHIRT. THESE TWO COLOURS ARE THE ONLY COLOURS AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE LWCC


THE ACQUISITION PROCESS OF THE BLUE T-SHIRT MAY TAKE SOME TIME. AIR DEU PERSONNEL WHO SO WISH ARE AUTHORIZED TO ACQUIRE AND WEAR, AT NO COST TO THE CROWN, A BLUE T-SHIRT IN THE FOLLOWING BRAND NAME AND COLOR CODE:


QUOTE FRUIT OF THE LOOM UNQUOTE EITHER 100 P COTTON OR 75 P COTTON /25 P POLY COLOR NAVY/BLEU COLOR NUMBER 20232, OR


QUOTE HANES UNQUOTE EITHER 100 P COTTON OR 75 P COTTON /25 P POLY COLOR NAVY/BLEU COLOR NUMBER 5284/NY


THESE IDENTIFIERS WILL COMPLEMENT THE CURRENT AIR FORCE HEADDRESS APPROVED FOR WEAR WITH OPERATIONAL CLOTHING. UNTIL FINAL DISTRIBUTION OF ALL IDENTIFIERS, AT MINIMUM, THE DISTINCTIVE AIR FORCE RANKS AND HEADDRESS ARE TO BE WORN BY ALL AIR DEU PERSONNEL


THE NEW AIR FORCE RANKS AND THE NAMETAPES ARE READY FOR DISTRIBUTION AND WILL BE ISSUED WITH THE NEW LWCC. PERSONNEL WHO CURRENTLY HAVE BEEN EQUIPPED WITH THE LWCC IN CADPAT TEMPERATE WOODLAND (TW) COLOR ARE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE NEW IDENTIFIERS. THE CEMS PROJECT MANAGEMENT OFFICE WILL PROMULGATE THE QTY OF NAMETAPES, RANK SLIP-ONS AND T-SHIRTS TO BE ALLOTTED


AIR FORCE IDENTIFIERS ARE ONLY AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE TW CADPAT AND SHALL NOT BE WORN WITH OTHER CADPAT DESIGNS (I.E. ARID)

 

[Yard Ape]

I do believe there is also that same colour of blue in the actual uniform as well.

P.S. I don't think sailors are being issued CADPAT.

The Air Force wears the exact same CADPAT uniform as the Army (in fact, our uniform has been modified to meet Air Force requirments).
Navy personel do get issued CADPAT.  It is the uniform they are expected to wear when posted to a Land Forces establishment.

The Blue thread cannot be seen on CADPAT from a distance.  That means you won't know who to salute untill too late.  It means they may as well not wear rank or nametags at all.

 

[AmmoTech90]

The green thread on Army slip-ons and nametapes cannot be seen at a distance either.  This was discussed at the Army Dress Committee.  So the Army may as well not wear rank or nametapes either?

 

[bossi]

Isn't there a "Murphy's Law for The Army" that says:

Try not to look important - it only draws attention ... and fire.

Frankly, I'm quite happy if the bad guys can't see my rank from a distance
(once upon a time, I was taught that sharpshooters/snipers aim for leaders ... and people with radios ... etc.)

Certainly, I hope we don't end up with neon rank slip-ons/name tags
(kinda like the US Army in the early days of Vietnam ...)
Why spend all that money on CADPAT, and then festoon it like a Christmas tree?

 

[Yard Ape]

The green thread on Army slip-ons and nametapes cannot be seen at a distance either.   This was discussed at the Army Dress Committee.   So the Army may as well not wear rank or nametapes either?

This was fixed a while ago.

 

[ZipperHead]

Why spend all that money on CADPAT, and then festoon it like a Christmas tree?

I'm afraid that the answer to that question is that, we, as a military, are more concerned with appearance than functionality (style over substance).  

I myself have been forced to do the quick "up-gooddaysir-down" more than a few times due to the near invisibility of the rank on the slip-ons. But then again, I kinda thought that was the point. But no doubt a few ossifers have gotten upset due to the fact that they didn't receive their ***sniff-sniff***   salute. Save that for parades in DEU, is my opinion, but what do I know.....

Al

 

[AmmoTech90]

This was fixed a while ago.

How so?  The minutes are from 2003.  I haven't changed my slip-ons since then.  I don't recall hearing anything in O-Gps about officers having new slip ons.

 

[chrisf]

I don't personally see a need for blue thread on the name tags. They've already got blue berets (Was that authorized for wear with cadpat? We've got an airforce clerk who as far as I remember wears a green beret, and we had a navy clerk who did wear a black beret...), that indentifies them as air force plenty. Isn't that enough?Or if it's not, fine, add the blue undershirts. If they want more then that, why not just go ahead and wear the airforce work dress? It's plenty distinct. Though it does need more care then the cadpat uniforms, which require virtually no effort beyond the act of hanging after removing from the dryer....

That being said, who really cares? If the airforce wants to pay for it, then let them.

And while I'm ranting, you know what would be great? Capat slip-ons with gold embroidery for the ranks, say for garrison, and optional green embroidery for the field. We've already got the full colour and green flags (Though I don't think I've ever actually remembered to bring my green flags with me let alone wear them)

 

[Gryphon]

Isn't there a "Murphy's Law for The Army" that says:

Try not to look important - it only draws attention ... and fire.

Frankly, I'm quite happy if the bad guys can't see my rank from a distance
(once upon a time, I was taught that sharpshooters/snipers aim for leaders ... and people with radios ... etc.)

Aww crap! oh well.. looks like i'm screwed!