Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

[PuckChaser]

Perhaps we asked for these aircraft in 2006, but due to our procurement process we're just going to be getting them in 2011.

 

[Greymatters]

But does a delivery date of Jun 2011 include operational testing and aircrew training?  If it doesnt, the actual date of deployment could be pushed back a bit...

 

[The Bread Guy]

"Usual suspect" expertise notwithstanding, IF it comes down to zero troops left outside the Embassy in Kabul by the end of 2011, and IF "King Air/Huron ISTAR Planes with Civvy Contractor Crews" is the direction Canada takes (and as Greymatters points out, IF it can be done in time), I'd be more than OK with that as Canadian contribution helping hunt down bad guys and IEDs.  Hell, more of the same IF that's the way it goes.

It obviously wouldn't give Canada the same clout as tan boots on the ground, but we're not hearing much from elected Ottawa on that option continuing these days, are we?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Bunch of stuff at The Torch:

On detainees...yet again...all the time (Damian Brooks, excellent)
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/on-detaineesyet-againall-time.html

Afghan detainees: "Scandalous"/Update: Anyone remember there's a war on?
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afghan-detainees-scandalous.html

Afghan detainees: Surely the Liberals showed contempt for international
law...
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afghan-detainees-surely-liberals-showed.html

Afstan: Terry Glavin on the radio (about his recent visit)
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-terry-glavin-on-radio.html

2009 Canadian Blog Awards/Upperdate: More Torch
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/2009-canadian-blog-awards-upperdatemore.html

Have just learned The Torch is also listed under at the awards website
http://cdnba.wordpress.com/vote-2009/
under "Professional Life". One can vote here, fairly frequently.
http://demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=cba09r1pro
Other categories for The Torch are best "Overall"
http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=cba09r1ovr
and "Group".
http://demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=cba09r1gro

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Afstan: "Can we resist the pressure to stay?"
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-can-we-resist-pressure-to-stay.html

Good piece by Brian Stewart at the CBC. Excerpts...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[OldSolduer]

I agree. There are far too many "experts" who constantly confuse not only the public, but our troops. Scotty and Sunil are but two of them.

These "experts" appear to be the "theoretical" types. They have no clue what goes on out beyond the wire.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Things are bad-enough without so-called 'experts" confusing the issue. We have the PM saying all stuff military ends in 2011, then our head diplomat in Kabul says that a PRT (300 soldiers) will be staying on afterwards and working with the U.S.

And we have American officials saying "we're still discussing what happens next with Canada and the Netherlands... +1000 on the lack of coherence of messaging on next steps.

These "experts" appear to be the "theoretical" types. They have no clue what goes on out beyond the wire.

Then why not look look beyond the "knucklehead" factor at the core idea:
Canada is paying an American company to modify planes that COULD be used, even flown/operated by civvies, to help detect bad guys and IEDs.  If Canada really does pull every Canadian soldier out of AFG by the end of 2011, would this be a good alternative contribution?

We accuse the media of going for the sizzle instead of the meat, so I'm thinking we can do better than them and focus the idea, not the messengers.

 

[HItorMiss]

Because these aircraft have no scope of use outside Afghanistan....  :

These planes will be critical assets to those people how use SIGINT to target bad guys in any theater of operations not just the current AO.

Defence experts my left butt cheek!

 

[MarkOttawa]

AfPak and US air power/Update: Scratch one senior AQ
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afpakand-us-air-power.html

Two amazingly detailed stories from Wired News (nothing like this would ever come through the CF--perhaps a good thing in cases such as these...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[speech]

Thanks, Loachman, I certainly appreciate your kind words and understanding.

First, I thank you for being one of the brave to serve our country in Kandahar.  We are so blessed to have individuals such as yourself who are called to do what you do, and I don't know what our country would do if we didn't have people such as yourself (and my brother).  I agree, the general public has no idea of what goes on over there, nor are we truly able to form an opinion because we have nothing to base it on.

My son was simply expressing HIS thoughts, and my beef was around the fact that people on here were calling him a liar.  I guess I should take your advice and consider these comments a compliment, since he clearly is a very talented writer. 

Thanks again.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Afstan: The Canadian journalism sucks challenge of the day/ "America's war", ISAF URL fun
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-canadian-journalism-sucks.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Jammer]

I would suggest the speculation on what sensors might be installed in the A/C be kept out of this discussion for the sake of OPSEC.

 

[HItorMiss]

I would suggest the speculation on what sensors might be installed in the A/C be kept out of this discussion for the sake of OPSEC.

Huh?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Our media certainly aren't helping any informed "Afghanistan Debate":

"Canada in Afstan: All the News That's Fit...
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/canada-in-afstan-all-news-thats-fit.html

...to Ignore almost completely by our media...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[The Bread Guy]

Huh?

I can't speak for Jammer, but I agree that we shouldn't talk in detail what hardware might be in the planes -  maybe stick more to the concept of the utility (or uselessness) of a light SIGINT plane in Canada's arsenal.

 

[HItorMiss]

I am going to assume the post about OPSEC and capabilites is some what aimed at me.

To which I will say EVERY one uses SIGINT to target those people who need targeting, No one here has talked about what specific items would or will be on these planes nor how they do what it is they do.

As a precaution though I agree those who know what types of equipment could be used and how it is used should know better then to talk specifics about it. In fact I would be shocked to see someone so sloppy as to get into specifics.

IMO of course

 

[Loachman]

Thanks, Loachman, I certainly appreciate your kind words and understanding.

You're welcome.

First, I thank you for being one of the brave to serve our country in Kandahar.  We are so blessed to have individuals such as yourself who are called to do what you do, and I don't know what our country would do if we didn't have people such as yourself (and my brother).

I don't think of myself as particularly brave, and I don't feel like much of a blessing. I do appreciate being paid to do something that I like, though.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Afstan: CF like the fish in the sea (with three US battalions for company)
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-like-fish-in-sea-with-three-us.html

Afstan: It's complicated for the CF to say goodbye--as the government's dance continues
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-its-complicated-for-cf-to-say.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Greymatters]

Apparently having any sort of PoliSci degree immediately qualifies you as an expert - and they dont like to be confused and their theories disproven by soldiers with actual experience...

 

[MarkOttawa]

The second US Army Brigade Combat Team coming to Kandahar/COIN priority over CT
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/us-army-brigade-combat-team-coming-to.html

Mark
Ottawa