Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[anndy_wang00]

Good day ,
I am from Winnipeg MB and have plans of going to become an Aerospace Control Officer. I am currently in Res MP, of which I am going to discharge and reenlist as I am a Pte with the MPs. If anyone has had experiences or knows about this position please fill me in.Any info would.be greatly appreciated. I really like Aviation and would like to make a career out of it.
I am married with a 19  old month son own a home with mortgage. My plan would be to have my family move to Cornwall ONT with me for the duration of my13 weeks of training after basic officer course in Quebec. Will the force pay for my move?
Second Qn: how long is the contract for this position?
3) Which are the bases will I be deployed to usually and the length I assume will depend on the nature of the operation itself.
4) Can my family come with me if possible if I get deployed such as US  or other non-war zones?
5)What if I failed the Nav Canada certificate test and are they difficult to pass?

I would say I am a pretty hard working person and I would put in a lot of effort into doing what I like. I dont expect myself to fail but just i case because I have my family to think about.
Thank you very much for your time, any input would be awesome

 

[DAA]

Good day ,
I am from Winnipeg MB and have plans of going to become an Aerospace Control Officer. I am currently in Res MP, of which I am going to discharge and reenlist as I am a Pte with the MPs. If anyone has had experiences or knows about this position please fill me in.Any info would.be greatly appreciated. I really like Aviation and would like to make a career out of it.
I am married with a 19  old month son own a home with mortgage. My plan would be to have my family move to Cornwall ONT with me for the duration of my13 weeks of training after basic officer course in Quebec. Will the force pay for my move?
Second Qn: how long is the contract for this position?
3) Which are the bases will I be deployed to usually and the length I assume will depend on the nature of the operation itself.
4) Can my family come with me if possible if I get deployed such as US  or other non-war zones?
5)What if I failed the Nav Canada certificate test and are they difficult to pass?

I would say I am a pretty hard working person and I would put in a lot of effort into doing what I like. I dont expect myself to fail but just i case because I have my family to think about.
Thank you very much for your time, any input would be awesome

First off, is you are currently in the Reserve Force and are releasing for the purpose of submitting an application for the Regular Force, you may encounter some serious roadblocks.  My first question would be "Have you reached OFP for Res MP? (ie; are you QL3 occupation qualified?).  If you have not reached the QL 3 level and release from the Reserves, you cannot be processed by a CFRC for a minimum of 365 days after the date of your release and then after that waiting period, you will need to jump through allot of hoops even to be considered, so you could be in for a very long wait.  If you are already QL3 qualified and release from the Reserves, then you may very well also be subject to a minimum of a 6 month waiting period before you can be processed for Regular Force.  The current policies are under review but will come into effect very shortly based on what I have mentioned above.

To answer the questions you have asked below, here goes......

1.  No the CF will NOT pay for that.  On top of that, after your BMOQ is completed, you will NOT be posted to CFSACO Cornwall for your training but rather you will be posted somewhere on OJT and even then the CF will not pay to relocate your family.  You are only entitled to relocation benefits, once you are occupation qualified and posted for first time employment.
2.  Depends on the entry plan chosen.  If you are looking at DEO AEC, then I believe the initial contract is probably "9 years" but I would have to reconfirm that
3.  You can be posted to any CF Base where aircraft are stationed and or a requirement for AEC Officers exist (ie; North Bay or in the US)
4.  Depending on the location and the duration you are assigned there, yes, your family will accompany you.
5.  I'll leave this one for an AEC officer to answer....

 

[anndy_wang00]

Hello,
Thank you for the prompt response.
I swore in on Dec 7 2013. I have not attended any of the trainings including BMQ. I originally applied to become an officer for the MPs but a month before I start, the officer position was taken.The recruiting office told me if I want to go in as a NCM and if there is a spot open for an officer ,I can always jump in. Few months later,the officer left , the spot was open,i asked for it but was told that I wil have to take the Platoon commander spot which I dont have experience in. Another officer completed the BMQ after failing it a few times finally passed but wasnt doing anything,not even the platoon commander job. Different Cpl told me different things which made me think that I was being jerked around, hence the plan.On the other hand, I do like to be in the Canadian Military as it will provide me with opportunities to come even after discharge specially in aviation field. I currently work for the federal government but I like to move around, do and see different things and people. I am told that I am an energizer bunny, I constantly find ways to do things and am active in better myself. I think I can wait for the position if that is really what I want instead of doing something I don‘t enjoy, well not anymore.
Worst case scenario if i do fail the Nav test, I just wish I can still stay with the air force and do something else related to aviation. But I hope I dont. I pick this position as an ACO because I think it wil be a job I wont get sick of but full of excitement and seeing the world.
So in your opionion, I should just do a Component transfer?And while that is taking place, do i just stop doing the Res postition?  Forgive me for I do not know the procedure.
Again thank you.for your time and patience.
Regards

 

[DAA]

Hello,
Thank you for the prompt response.
I swore in on Dec 7 2013. I have not attended any of the trainings including BMQ. I originally applied to become an officer for the MPs but a month before I start, the officer position was taken.The recruiting office told me if I want to go in as a NCM and if there is a spot open for an officer ,I can always jump in. Few months later,the officer left , the spot was open,i asked for it but was told that I wil have to take the Platoon commander spot which I dont have experience in. Another officer completed the BMQ after failing it a few times finally passed but wasnt doing anything,not even the platoon commander job. Different Cpl told me different things which made me think that I was being jerked around, hence the plan.On the other hand, I do like to be in the Canadian Military as it will provide me with opportunities to come even after discharge specially in aviation field. I currently work for the federal government but I like to move around, do and see different things and people. I am told that I am an energizer bunny, I constantly find ways to do things and am active in better myself. I think I can wait for the position if that is really what I want instead of doing something I don‘t enjoy, well not anymore.
Worst case scenario if i do fail the Nav test, I just wish I can still stay with the air force and do something else related to aviation. But I hope I dont. I pick this position as an ACO because I think it wil be a job I wont get sick of but full of excitement and seeing the world.
So in your opionion, I should just do a Component transfer?And while that is taking place, do i just stop doing the Res postition?  Forgive me for I do not know the procedure.
Again thank you.for your time and patience.
Regards

If you are or were planning on being an Officer, then I hope it is safe to assume that you already have an undergrad degree.  Given your fairly recent enrolment date and the fact that you have not even done your BMQ, you are not in the greatest of positions at the present time, so your only option at the moment, would be to apply for a CT to the Reg F as an AEC Officer if that is what you truly want.

Releasing prior to BMQ and or occupation training, is not that great of an idea due to the high probability that you are going to have to wait a minimum of one year to re-apply to the Reg F and the wait time can be longer.  Your probably better off trying to get as much training done as you possibly can (ie; BMQ and occupation trg).

Anyway you look at it based all possible scenario's, because you enrolled in the Reserves and now want to go Regular Force, your going to have to wait and most likely, wait along time (2 years or more).

 

[anndy_wang00]

Hi there,
Yes i do have a Undergrad degree from University of Manitoba. I also thought about going into graduate degree.
I will heed your advise and speak to my platoon about a CT, and see what they say, at the same time complete my BMQ. I just do not want to do BMQ twice because I have heard that happened to another officer who just left the platoon. I feel more secure doing BMQ if i know where I am going for sure . I just cannot leave my future to unknown unless I do them myself.  I cant afford to waste more time and effort.
If the forces does not pay for relocation I will have to relocate using my current work resources to Ontario which I think will work out better.
I thank you again for your informative input.
Best Regards

 

[DAA]

Hi there,
Yes i do have a Undergrad degree from University of Manitoba. I also thought about going into graduate degree.
I will heed your advise and speak to my platoon about a CT, and see what they say, at the same time complete my BMQ. I just do not want to do BMQ twice because I have heard that happened to another officer who just left the platoon. I feel more secure doing BMQ if i know where I am going for sure . I just cannot leave my future to unknown unless I do them myself.  I cant afford to waste more time and effort.
If the forces does not pay for relocation I will have to relocate using my current work resources to Ontario which I think will work out better.
I thank you again for your informative input.
Best Regards

Make the best of the situation you are in, that will allow you to "gain" the most.  Sometimes people are happy just being in the Reserves and it's a good fit for them.  The Reserves allow for the opportunity to get a "taste" of military life without having to make a full-time commitment.  There are plenty of people out there who have found themselves in a position similar to yours and there are those who have joined the Regular Force, found it just wasn't for them, released but then decided to join the Reserves and are happy with what they have.

You just never know.........

 

[Jorkapp]

Good day ,
I am from Winnipeg MB and have plans of going to become an Aerospace Control Officer. I am currently in Res MP, of which I am going to discharge and reenlist as I am a Pte with the MPs. If anyone has had experiences or knows about this position please fill me in.Any info would.be greatly appreciated. I really like Aviation and would like to make a career out of it.
I am married with a 19  old month son own a home with mortgage. My plan would be to have my family move to Cornwall ONT with me for the duration of my13 weeks of training after basic officer course in Quebec. Will the force pay for my move?
Second Qn: how long is the contract for this position?
3) Which are the bases will I be deployed to usually and the length I assume will depend on the nature of the operation itself.
4) Can my family come with me if possible if I get deployed such as US  or other non-war zones?
5)What if I failed the Nav Canada certificate test and are they difficult to pass?

I would say I am a pretty hard working person and I would put in a lot of effort into doing what I like. I dont expect myself to fail but just i case because I have my family to think about.
Thank you very much for your time, any input would be awesome

DAA answered #1-4 quite well, but #5 doesn't really pertain to the CF at all. AEC nor AC Op have Nav Canada certificates. The CF issues its own licenses to control live aircraft, and they are not directly transferable to Nav Canada, or vice-versa. That said, the CF courses to obtain said licenses are known to be difficult. If you fail the course, you are processed through a Progress Review Board which recommends either Release (if you're a shyte-pump), Recourse (a rare case for AEC), or Cease-Training (most often) where you can choose to remuster to a new trade, or release on your own. Best advice for the courses are to keep a good attitude, try not to stress out, and above all, study hard!

 

[anndy_wang00]

Thank you Guy Incognito for the info, I was in the Marines as a Cpl  in Asia 10 years ago,I have been to the military and I like the stability and on going training.
I think if I did not make it to the AEC, can I go into Air Combat Systems Officer? I am not planning to fail but its always good to have another back-up . Its really good to know that the CF certificate is not tranferable to Nav cert or vice versa for I  have always thought that the CF AEC is trained by Nav Canada and would automatically obtained a Nav certificate.
With regards to becoming an AEC, as I am currently in the reserve , if I do my BMQ as a Pte with the MPs would it still be transferable if I go to Reg Force as an officer with the Air Fice(I just woud like to confirm) I assume there will be another officer training after that correct? And after which would be OJT for AEC. I am asking this is because  I need to worry about my family  and if they would be left by themselves for a while before I am qualified for the position and  I would be moving to different air base constantly.
Another qn, if I do get deployed to another country E.G. US, does CF personnel need to apply for visa? 
Thank you

 

[anndy_wang00]

I have read other threads regarding AEC on training and the OJT or OJE are almost all across Canadafor a duration from 2  to 4 months each is that correct?
Does anyone know how long a  Component Tansfer can and wil take? Does it depends how how fast a clerk processes them or policy related?
Thank you

 

[Jorkapp]

CFSACO is currently hosted at a Nav Canada owned facility (Nav Centre, formerly Nav Canada Training Institute), but the instruction is 100% CF. Interestingly enough, there's very little Nav Canada ATC Training taking place at the facility these days.

If you are unsuccessful in AEC training, you can remuster into a new trade if you meet the entry standards for that trade, and a position is available. For ACSO, you would need to pass the medical standards, as well as the selection test. Bear in mind, the CAF is quite full right now, so the list of trades might be small. When I was remustering out of AEC, my choice for officer trades was Infantry or MARS, and I had no interest in either.

If you do your BMQ in the PRes, you will still have to do the full BMOQ once you are in the RegF. It might not mean much on paper, but it can help you prepare for what's ahead in BMOQ.

For personnel posted OUTCAN (e.g. to the US), CF personnel are generally issued green passports with a visa. I'm not sure if the member applies for it or if the admin types take care of it, but one way or another, you get one.

OJT/OJE duration before course can vary depending on a number of factors. I'm not sure what the average OJE duration is right now for AEC. 2 to 4 months might be plausible, but it might be upwards of a year.

 

[anndy_wang00]

Guy Incognito, thank you for your reply. Now that I know that  I have to kinda redo Basics, I would rather not do BMQ for now due to the fact that I have to take time off from work as PRes and i do have my son to worry about.
My guess for the fact that most ATC training will take place other than Nav can is to cut cost and time, the DL and OJE will probably take place consecutively at a unit.I am hoping it will happen in Winnipeg that way I can still stay with my family for a bit, but its just my guess. Then after move to a assigned unit where my family can move with me. I have a much better understanding of the big picture now so I can integrate my life into it and try to make it work. I will speak to  recruiting and my platoon and proceed from there.
Thank you again!

 

[SupersonicMax]

There is no military ATC in Winnipeg.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If you have not reached the QL 3 level and release from the Reserves, you cannot be processed by a CFRC for a minimum of 365 days after the date of your release and then after that waiting period, you will need to jump through allot of hoops even to be considered, so you could be in for a very long wait.  If you are already QL3 qualified and release from the Reserves, then you may very well also be subject to a minimum of a 6 month waiting period before you can be processed for Regular Force.  The current policies are under review but will come into effect very shortly based on what I have mentioned above.

l
Just for clarity; the timelines you mention above are the current ones in effect now, or are they actually the proposed ones under review that will replace the current ones?

If they are the ones that will supersede current timelines, what are the actual current timelines?

 

[DAA]

If you have not reached the QL 3 level and release from the Reserves, you cannot be processed by a CFRC for a minimum of 365 days after the date of your release and then after that waiting period, you will need to jump through allot of hoops even to be considered, so you could be in for a very long wait.  If you are already QL3 qualified and release from the Reserves, then you may very well also be subject to a minimum of a 6 month waiting period before you can be processed for Regular Force.  The current policies are under review but will come into effect very shortly based on what I have mentioned above.

l
Just for clarity; the timelines you mention above are the current ones in effect now, or are they actually the proposed ones under review that will replace the current ones?

If they are the ones that will supersede current timelines, what are the actual current timelines?

Varies from location to location but what I have mentioned are the current "proposals/changes" that they are looking at implementing.  The "1 year" wait for those not reaching OFP is current and will most likely remain at that level.  The only big change being recommended, is a 6 month wait for everybody else.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

???  Wouldn't this be a CAF (national) policy?  How could it vary from location to location?

 

[Zoomie]

There is no military ATC in Winnipeg.

Correct - however there is a huge contingent of AECs posted to Winnipeg - they man the CAOC and other similar tasks.  Plenty of opportunities for OJT there.

 

[DAA]

???  Wouldn't this be a CAF (national) policy?  How could it vary from location to location?

It would be a CFRG Policy.  Current directive is non-OFP is a mandatory 1 year wait followed by further approvals after the one year.  4.C. OFP's currently have no waiting period (CANFORGEN and Recruiting Directive on the topic).

 

[SupersonicMax]

Correct - however there is a huge contingent of AECs posted to Winnipeg - they man the CAOC and other similar tasks.  Plenty of opportunities for OJT there.

I believe their version of the OJT has some training associated with it in which case, 1/2 CAD doesn't really qualify.

 

[agc]

The DL is gone, and there's a new common core done at CFSACO.  While OJE at a Wing or Sqn is preferential, lots of folks end up spending their time at the Div or elsewhere.  I spent 16 months or so waiting while doing my old job in recruiting, but I asked for and got some TD to one of the towers before my course.

 

[reganm]

Good day ,
I am from Winnipeg MB and have plans of going to become an Aerospace Control Officer. I am currently in Res MP, of which I am going to discharge and reenlist as I am a Pte with the MPs. If anyone has had experiences or knows about this position please fill me in.Any info would.be greatly appreciated. I really like Aviation and would like to make a career out of it.
I am married with a 19  old month son own a home with mortgage. My plan would be to have my family move to Cornwall ONT with me for the duration of my13 weeks of training after basic officer course in Quebec. Will the force pay for my move?
Second Qn: how long is the contract for this position?
3) Which are the bases will I be deployed to usually and the length I assume will depend on the nature of the operation itself.
4) Can my family come with me if possible if I get deployed such as US  or other non-war zones?
5)What if I failed the Nav Canada certificate test and are they difficult to pass?

I would say I am a pretty hard working person and I would put in a lot of effort into doing what I like. I dont expect myself to fail but just i case because I have my family to think about.
Thank you very much for your time, any input would be awesome

Greetings,

I am an AEC and can answer number five. The military trains AEC VFR and IFR controllers under their own license and program. Although Air Traffic Controllers in both the civilian and military side use the same rules (some rules are different for military), the licesnces they issue do not carry over. Thus, If I wanted to be a civilian air traffic controller I would have to quit the air force and re-take the NAV CANADA course and pass their check-out procedure in order to get a civilian license. I would not think that the military cares to much if you have failed your NAV Can certificate test. Being selected for AEC is based on Merit Listing for the military. Score high on aircrew, and education etc...and hopefully you will be selected. Show the recruiting centre you have the apptitude for AEC. I have friends who went on course with me who are very smart and gifted, but they did not make it through the course at NAV Centre (Canadian Forces School of Aerspace Control Operations). The trade takes hard work and dedication...be prepared to work abnormally hard. In the end, it is very worth it and everyone I work with are great to be around because we all love our jobs. Good Luck!