Ady Gil Loses Bow to Japanese Whaling Vessel

[bullitt]

Splitting hairs.

I'm splitting hairs because I called you on a gross over exaggeration?

Again, splitting hairs.  How do you know the organs aren't used as food or bait? It's not wasted.

Again you exaggerated and I called you an it! And how do you know they are not wasted????

Completely irrelevant. Once again, it is 0.5 percent of the blue whale population.  Which, regardless of what you want to think, is an incredibly small number. The 900 or so mink whales are not even close to extinction and are actually overly abundant.

So my point is irrelevant when I am disproving your previous claim that they hunt whale meet to feed the starving people of Japan????????

Money makes the world go round, money also allows certain people to have jobs. If they have no jobs, they have no money; if they have no money, then no food, and if they have no food, they die.

lol thanks for the economics tip, I'm sure glad we have whaling to keep those people from starving to death! I wonder how the unemployed in other countries do it? I guess they just all fall over and die! Must be really hard in Alberta and Saskatchewan... you know being so far from an ocean and all!

To quote you :"Finally, Japanese fishermen hunt whales because they have no choice- they die if they don't".
Surely you can understand that.

That's not my quote but thanks.

And what a stupid thing to say. We aren't animals?
While the term can refer to any living creature other than humans, we are very much animals.

You should re-read your line there stud! They key point is "any living creature OTHER THAN HUMANS"!!! Regardless there are two definitions that you can go by, and this argument is in many scientific circles right now, which I know I'm not qualified in and I know your not either. However, I choose to believe humans are mammals not animals for the record!

My argument? All i had to back up was the fact that several thousands animals die a year...which they do.
I gave you many sources.

That was not your argument you said hundreds of thousands of animals go extinct every year!! Ohh and you gave me yahoo answers and Wikipedia as your sources!

You said:
'the fact that near-extinct species are being killed, however, the tactics used by these "activists" are nuts!'.

Never said this either??? Do you even know my argument and point???

I called you out on it and then said many animals go extinct a year. You called me out on that and I proved you wrong by citing 5 organizations claiming what I was saying.

Again you gave me Wikipedia and Yahoo answers for your sources and you again said hundreds of thousand of animals go extinct each year, now its many hahahah! But yea you sure proved me wrong alright! Again do you even know my argument?

It doesn't affect anyone else. Had you never heard about these whales being killed for their 'meat', would you have noticed? I sincerely doubt it. Hell,
So, again, how does it affect YOU?

Would I have noticed if they were killing whales for reasons other then meat??? ummm probably more so! I have been over how this effects me! but you don't like to read over my last post obviously so what can I say.

you can tell me they're killing off the panda bear, and I still wouldn't know.

This does not surprise me as I see it takes multiple attempts to get information through to you!

And, again, your misplaced concept that we are not animals is just sad. Intelligent people don't limit themselves because of some misguided sense of arrogant self righteousness.

Yea because I believe humans are mammals not animals I'm misguided and sad? Sorry Darwin I did not know you were such an expert on animal- mammal physiology that you have solved the scientific debate over the two!

I'm never gonna get these 10 mins of my life back am I? I feel dirty!

 

[Kat Stevens]

I do know that moose are native to Newfoundland... That's irrelevant. They are here now, and even though we kill off 20ish percent of them every year from hunting alone, they're still thriving. They are getting hit because there's a gazillion of them. You do not know what it's like here. They're everywhere.

I realize Kat was pulling that 0.5 from someone else, but in terms of conservation, if an extra .5% of humans were killed every year, we'd still be populating the earth like weeds. 0.5% is SFA, and if a species can't survive losing 0.5% due to predation, then Darwin and I say screw 'em.

So it's a terrible example for sustainability, so it DID come across as a "how would you like it you" comment whether that was intended or not.

There is tons of predation here for them. Newfoundland has the biggest black bears in North America and they're rarely hunted, there's plenty of them. Coyotes here are actually a hybrid of a wolf, and take down Moose and they're decimating the Caribou population. Add in humans taking their 20% share....

I wasn't pulling out an "misunderstood Newfie" crap. You seem to be all against whaling just because it was killing a poor whale, nothing to do with sustainability, so I figured your next comment would be something along the lines of our sealing industry. It's not like you didn't try and take a shot at our conversation record, which is hardly anything to do with OUR fishing industry... maybe a few other country's...

I can't recall who's figure .5% is, so I'll let that one go.  Should we do something based solely on whether it's sustainable? ridiculous precedent.  Black bears kill calves almost exclusively, and those not very often, a bear is an opportunity eater, and there's plenty of easier pickings than a moose.  Out here we have real bears that will take on the job, but not often.  Your coyotes are no different than those in Quebec or NB, the Eastern Coyote, not a hybrid at all, and again will not attempt to take down any but the oldest or youngest of moose.  the reason for lots of moose is that they breed like rabbits... how many calves can a cow moose produce in a lifetime?  How many can a cow whale produce in it's lifetime?

 

[PMedMoe]

I do know that moose are native to Newfoundland... That's irrelevant. They are here now, and even though we kill off 20ish percent of them every year from hunting alone, they're still thriving. They are getting hit because there's a gazillion of them. You do not know what it's like here. They're everywhere.

I don't know what it's like there?  Really?  That's funny, because I used to live there.  Even got my moose hunting license one year.

I could argue with you about the migration stuff, but I don't think there's going to be much facts to find about moose in Newfoundland...

Yes, hard to find info about Newfoundland moose, but not to find info that moose (and deer and caribou) do, in fact migrate, or, for want of a better word, move to find food, depending on precipitation, season, etc.

But besides the fact that our highway goes *around* the island, and not through anything,

This is your definition of around?

And no, I'm not against the seal hunt.  They're nowhere near extinction.  I'm not even really against whaling.  I don't think anything near extinction (animal, plant, etc) should be needlessly destroyed.

Reminds me of the movie Medicine Man with Sean Connery.  Some plant or animal is going to be rare or extinct and we will find out it holds the cure to cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, AIDS.....the list goes on.

I'm starting to be sorry I made the whaling comment at all.  :-\

 

[ballz]

I don't know what it's like there?  Really?  That's funny, because I used to live there.  Even got my moose hunting license one year.

Didya now? I was on four kills during last year's season alone. I've probably been on over 50 kills in my short life.

Yes, hard to find info about Newfoundland moose, but not to find info that moose (and deer and caribou) do, in fact migrate, or, for want of a better word, move to find food, depending on precipitation, season, etc.

What exactly do you think the moose in Newfoundland would stand to gain from migrating? It's an island, a small one at that. There's no real differences in weather, vegetation, etc at any point during the year. There is nowhere to migrate to. And with only 111,390 sq km, and with over 120,000 moose, they don't really have to go far to mate.

Moose here do not behave the same as moose on the mainland of the continent. They have their own environment which they've adapted to. That is why I said "there's not much info on Newfoundland moose" because they're simply not the same as the status quo.

The biggest difference in their living patterns is they go deeper into the woods during winter. They don't travel from St. John's to Corner Brook, and even if they did they'd only have to cross the highway twice.

For every km you drive on the Trans Canada you're potentially driving past 2 moose within 1 km of the road... that is all year round, not during rutting season. That is why they're on the roads, not because the one highway in Newfoundland is smack dab where it shouldn't be.

This is your definition of around?

Uhhh yes, look at that damn highway... At no point is it any further than 50km from the water, and tons of it is within eyesight... What would be your definition of around? Building 1-10km bridges over every single inlet and harbour?

And no, I'm not against the seal hunt.  They're nowhere near extinction.  I'm not even really against whaling.  I don't think anything near extinction (animal, plant, etc) should be needlessly destroyed.

Then why are we arguing about moose and whales? Neither of which is falling off the face of the earth anytime soon.

 

[ballz]

Should we do something based solely on whether it's sustainable? ridiculous precedent.  Black bears kill calves almost exclusively, and those not very often, a bear is an opportunity eater, and there's plenty of easier pickings than a moose.  Out here we have real bears that will take on the job, but not often.  Your coyotes are no different than those in Quebec or NB, the Eastern Coyote, not a hybrid at all, and again will not attempt to take down any but the oldest or youngest of moose.  the reason for lots of moose is that they breed like rabbits... how many calves can a cow moose produce in a lifetime?  How many can a cow whale produce in it's lifetime?

"Real bears?" What's a real bear? Is it because black bears are small that you said that? I told you, Newfoundland has the biggest black bears. They weigh in up to 270kg. Why would it matter if they were only eating calves anyway? A calf is a moose isn't it? A calf needs to grow up if the moose population is going to be sustained doesn't it? Every predator targets the weaker prey. Wolves target calves as well.


from http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/04/20/nl-coyotes-caribou.html#ixzz0ggBHFxaZ
[/quote]Western coyotes aren't known to kill big animals like caribou, but Eastern Canada is likely dealing with a bigger variety that's more like a wolf, says Paul Wilson, a researcher at Trent University in Ontario.

"The eastern coyote is, in fact, a hybrid between the eastern wolf and coyote that expanded from the west," Wilson said. "Whatever animals made it over to Newfoundland probably came from this hybrid eastern coyote."[/quote]

A cow moose typically only has 1 calf, sometimes 2. In a lifetime? 20 years is a high lifespan, and they take about 2 years to sexually mature, so you do the math... I wouldn't exactly compare them to rabbits.

Whales certainly have a higher lifespan (sperm whales 75 years, blue whales 35-40 years is what I'm reading, just for random examples) so even if it takes them 7-10 years to mature, I don't think there's any dramatic difference in these animals ability to mate that being hunted 40 times more couldn't make up for....

 

[GAP]

This thread is well past it's half-life, the points have been made, argued, made again, argued again......fine........now we're arguing about moose.....what's next? Ants.?

 

[Kat Stevens]

never mind, kill 'em, there are plenty to go around.

 

[ballz]

There's a period after that "1, sometimes 2" part.

I meant 1, sometimes 2 per year. Then gave you the other stuff to "do the math" to find the answer to your own question. I wasn't trying to say they have 1 or 2 calves in a 20 year lifespan.

Anywho, I'm not arguing about this anymore. 0.5%, or 1 in 200, is SFA. That was my original point and I still stand by it.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I edited my previous post.  Just info for the sake of continuity.

 

[bdave]

Just so we're clear ballz for brains, my point was about .5%  being a large part of a population.

No, it's not.
If I told you that I had a million dollars and I'd give you .5 percent, would you be ecstatic?
Cause let me tell you, 0.5 percent is only 5000 dollars. Half of a percent is not a large part of a population, at all.

Don't trot out that poor misunderstood Newfie bullshit on me, I'm not buying it, and it has nothing to do with what I said, killing whales is UNNECESSARY in this day and age.

Of course you would think this. Your lively hood does not depend on it.
Many things are "unnecessary" if you break them down like that.

I'm splitting hairs because I called you on a gross over exaggeration?

Alright, tens of thousands of species die a year.
Now let's move on.

Again you exaggerated and I called you an it! And how do you know they are not wasted????

I don't really know. It's more of a common sense thing. Many people eat entire parts of animals. Whether it's guts turned into sausages or duck's feet turned into pate. I would assume they would have some use for all those hundreds of pounds of guts, heart and etc.

So my point is irrelevant when I am disproving your previous claim that they hunt whale meet to feed the starving people of Japan???????? lol thanks for the economics tip, I'm sure glad we have whaling to keep those people from starving to death! I wonder how the unemployed in other countries do it? I guess they just all fall over and die! Must be really hard in Alberta and Saskatchewan... you know being so far from an ocean and all!

Again with the rhetoric.

That's not my quote but thanks.

You know exactly what I meant. Way to avoid answering.

You should re-read your line there stud! They key point is "any living creature OTHER THAN HUMANS"!!! Regardless there are two definitions that you can go by, and this argument is in many scientific circles right now, which I know I'm not qualified in and I know your not either. However, I choose to believe humans are mammals not animals for the record!

You can choose to believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster, for all I care, it doesn't make you right.
If you believe in evolution, then we've evolved from animals. Hence, we are animals.
If you don't believe in evolution, then you can look at how scientists/biologists classify living organisms. You will see we fall under the animal kingdom.
There is one definition and that is the one I just described to you.

That was not your argument you said hundreds of thousands of animals go extinct every year!! Ohh and you gave me yahoo answers and Wikipedia as your sources! Never said this either??? Do you even know my argument and point???

Wikipedia is a credible source, believe it or not. Especially since many of them have sources (scroll to the bottom of the page) and some university professors accept wikipedia as valid sources.
I gave you way more organizations than i did yahoo, so your point is moot.

My initial argument was a reply to this:
"the fact that near-extinct species are being killed,"

Then it kept going into what it is now.

Again you gave me Wikipedia and Yahoo answers for your sources and you again said hundreds of thousand of animals go extinct each year, now its many hahahah!

Alright, I take it back. Tens of thousands of species die a year. Man, glad we got that out of the way...because it really changes anything.

But yea you sure proved me wrong alright! Again do you even know my argument?

Yes, that it is cruel how whales are killed. However, my initial calling out was on the fact that you claimed that these were near extinct whales being killed.

Would I have noticed if they were killing whales for reasons other then meat??? ummm probably more so! I have been over how this effects me! but you don't like to read over my last post obviously so what can I say.
This does not surprise me as I see it takes multiple attempts to get information through to you!

Good one. I like how you completely avoided the question. I'll repeat it for your sake:
If no one had told you about whaling (personally, through some news source or whatever), would you know it was going on? The answer is obviously no. However, if you're so stubborn as to say yes, then please state exactly how whaling has or would have affected you, even if you didn't know it was happening.
If someone kills the elephant, bengal tiger or panda bear, I would not be affected by it in any way. Nothing in my life would change. So exactly how are you affected by whales dying? How does something that does not affect you, and affects others, become any of your concern?

Yea because I believe humans are mammals not animals I'm misguided and sad?

Yes, because humans cannot be mammals and not animals. It's a contradiction. Again, refer to the actual classifications used by scientists/biologists (for lack of a better term) used and not some airy fairy "humans are superior' idea that you've come up with.
All animals are unique. Some can fly, some can stay underwater, some can live in pitch black environments, some are very fast, some are very strong and some are very intelligent. Just because we are one and not the others, does not mean we are not animals.

Sorry Darwin I did not know you were such an expert on animal- mammal physiology that you have solved the scientific debate over the two!

I have actually studied classification of animals and their physiology, though not extensively. While i do have some knowledge, I am not an expert by any means. I am using animals and species interchangeably here (though it's incorrect really) because in such a discussion, it's irrelevant.

I'm never gonna get these 10 mins of my life back am I? I feel dirty!

Yes, because who would have thought that people don't debate on forums.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nuke the gay whales for Jesus.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff