Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[Tow Tripod]

Mike Strobel
I cant believe that the Toronto Sun would publish a GARBAGE editorial like this.If a female from Canada is capable and willing to participant on combat operations all the power to her. In my opinion Mr Strobel you are diminishing the effort put forth by females in Canada that want and do participate on combat operations.The Canadian Armed forces is a equal opportunity employer to the bitter end.Mr Strobel you should hang your head in shame or at least give it a good shake!!!!

TOW TRIPOD

WE BREATH FIRE AND DEATH

 

[GAP]

Women are as capable as men when it comes to Combat Arms, but obviously some people don't get it. I find the article condescending towards women.
They are as brave and capable as any man out there and should be recognized for it.

Are they different? Definitely!! But it is that difference that makes their inclusion so valuable.

I often wonder how these pontificating reporters themselves would fare if embedded in the outfits, rather than sitting in Toronto and whining about something they know nothing about.

I read the many articles by Christie Blatchford, who had an unbiased view of what it was like, I think it should only be fair to allow  Mike Strobel an "equal" opportunity. If fact, if we work at it, I bet we could "let" him have an exclusive interview with a Taliban fighter shooting at us at the very time he is shooting at us. Then he could find out for sure whether the Taliban distinguish the difference.   (Is anybody willing to "chip in" to pay for airfare over there for  Mike Strobel??)  rant off

 

[aluc]

"I cant believe that the Toronto Sun would publish a GARBAGE editorial like this."

Well, that's because the SUN is garbage! This editorial really makes very little sense, and is simply playing on the emotions of its readership. It's a rag worthy of cleaning my windshield.  Well, maybe except for the last page.....

 

[CdnArtyWife]

GUT REACTION

But do not tell me your reaction to her face on our front page was the same as it was to the faces of the 16 brave Canadian men killed over there.

If you are human, you had an extra catch in your throat. You were uneasy, disbelieving.

Yeah, I had an extra catch in my throat, but not because Nic was female...

The extra catch was because I could relate to her, she was Arty, my hubby knew her, I had met her briefly, and she worked with several of our good friends, one of whom is now over there in her stead.

But I felt no more sad than I did for Braun Scott Woodfield who was 2RCR or Cpl Jamie Murphy or Pte Nathan Smith. They all tugged at my heart, all the deaths do...as they do for everyone. We feel for all of them, then the pang of pride swoops in that they fell doing something they loved, serving their country for us at home. Each and every casualty in theatre has its own merrits that touch us.

I think it is safe to say that Nic would say "hey, I'm just here doing my job...don't mind my ovaries" so if she wouldn't want people to make a big deal of her gender, then we should honor that.

Each and every death is a tragedy, regardless of how, or who.

 

[Journeyman]

Does anyone doubt that, if females were denied Combat Arms' line-serials, the Toronto Sun would be leading the torch-bearing mobs to root out that hoary Frankenstein monster of sexist CF oppression?

We'd be bombarded with editorials demanding the CF get into the 21st century and accord our female soldiers their rights! Only backwards, undeveloped nations deny their women equality....(oh, and Notre Dame University, which for a Valentines Day basketball game was going to give the first 1,000 female spectators oven mitts - - 'cause women's place is, well, you know....)

And as for citing Janis Alton of Canadian Voice of Women for Peace, as being against women in combat.....gee, credible reporting there Mike. Let's file that with "Hells Angels think we have too much police presence." Of course, with this high-quality ( : ) style of journalism, Alton's quote, "We're adamantly opposed," could refer to anything. Based only upon what is here, it would not surprise me to find that Strobel had asked, "does your group support beating puppies," since he's obviously playing towards sympathies rather than thought.

If he had thought....his editorial would have merely echoed General MacKenzie: "The greatest respect I can pay to (her) is to treat it just like the death of another soldier -- with great respect and certainly no differently."  Full stop.

 

[camochick]

Way to go. Showing disrespect for a fallen soldier on the day of her funeral. Wow, Houston, we have a winner. I'm so glad to hear that this man thinks that I have no right to fight and perhaps die for my country if I so choose. It's 2006, this should be a non issue already.  >

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'm sure he has email.  Perhaps all those offended could let him know why.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

There are, if one digs deep (and I don't agree with them, incidentally), legitimate reasons to suggest that women might be less suited for combat than men (in general, as we've discussed here before)  - however, this article discusses none of them. There is also no legitimate reason to think that women are not suited for combat at all.  Again, nothing is discussed here but one person's opinion. The timing of this article is crass and the author comes off as a complete idiot. This was truly revolting. After the pouting about the PM, this is just another indication of how morally bankrupt the press has become in this country.

 

[scm77]

I'm sure he has email.  Perhaps all those offended could let him know why.

Here ya go.

mike.strobel@tor.sunpub.com

or

editor@tor.sunpub.com

 

[2 Cdo]

Maybe I'm not quite as thin-skinned as some, but I didn't see any disrespect in his column. A lot of Canadians, right or wrong, would agree with his column, again right or wrong. Now, I never served with Capt Goddard, but from the little I have read or heard about her she seemed like a fine young officer. I also tend to agree with Michael as I never get used to hearing about soldiers dying.

Again, for those who ranted about the Sun being a "rag" and for this column being "condescending" towards women, I honestly think you have read far too much into it and are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also, right or wrong, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but the death of a woman or child anywhere does bother me more than that of a man. Don't get me wrong, both male and female deaths bother me but I think my upbringing tends to want to protect women and children, while letting men sort themselves out.

Have a nice day!

 

[Pea]

I definitely have to agree with the distasteful timing on this article. What kind of person with any kind of respect releases an article saying females should not be in a combat role, on the day of Capt. Goddard's funeral. I am sickened.

He says that we "ALL" felt worse when we saw her in the paper because she is a female. Well, don't group me in that, as I did not. The only time something would feel "worse" to me is if it was someone I knew or was connected to. I don't care if they are male or female, they are soldiers doing what they were trained to do.

I love how someone speaking as a "women's voice" is saying women shouldn't be in combat. Way to go princess, "fight for our rights", and then fight to get them limited.  : Thanks for coming out...

I have to agree with camochick on this one, it is 2006, why the heck are we still debating this nonsense.

 

[GAP]

I wonder if we would have had such a reaction if she had been killed in a traffic accident. Maybe women shouldn't drive. To dangerous.

She was doing her job, she was appreciateted for the professional she was, and our memory of her should be just that...the loss of a good soldier. 

 

[Rory]

Maybe we should send Strobel to Afghanistan and let him see how you could be another local male or female but soon as you resist the Taliban, rattle of the AK is a comin. I just don't see his point, on one side ya it sucks we lost another soldier and thats a pain we have been going through for awhile now. But on another point he is basically saying women do not have the right to serve their country in their chosen way be it combat arms.

 

[Gunner]

Does anyone doubt that, if females were denied Combat Arms' line-serials, the Toronto Sun would be leading the torch-bearing mobs to root out that hoary Frankenstein monster of sexist CF oppression?

I agree JM.  Newspapers operate in a competitive industry and their survival depends on selling papers, not informing/educating the public.  Bad/controversial articles and headlines sell those papers ....

 

[military granny]

My son knew Nichola and has told me she was damn good at her job, and was very good to the soldiers that served with her. Does this not say enough about women in the CF. Yes there are women in the combat arms as there are also women in Admin Coy's, Engineer Coy's and everywhere else in the CF, they are good at their jobs and that's why they are there.Don't get me wrong I'm not saying men aren't just as good at these jobs but all members of the forces choose where they want to work and excel at the jobs at hand.Nichola chose to be the FOO and from all accounts was a damn good one,and does it hurt any more or less cause she was a women....... no it still hurts because she was a part of the military family.

 

[Gunnar]

As has been discussed in the thread on the Ottawa Press corps, the press likes to make headlines, and spout outrage.

I find this issue particularly amusing, because the mainstream media has been pumping out the "first female casualty" line for weeks now, and most Canadians don't care any more than they did about the previous casualties....(10?).  Sorry guys...maybe this editorial is supposed to make us feel outraged, but it feels like too much effort.

**"Most Canadians" as judged by an informal survey of lunch-room and water-cooler discussions...How much have YOU  heard on the subject, except from the press, who appear to be trying again and again to make us upset, 'cept we're not buying into it.

 

[Marauder]

Well, I think Mike Strobel is not suited to a journalism role. Or any role that requires any critical thinking or intelligence.

You know what? Screw him. This weak-minded sucklechimp is feeling sorry about his widdle feelings of inadequacy because CPT Goddard had the gall to volunteer to serve her country and died defending it? Christ Almighty, there already too many people out there willing to live under the blanket of security placed upon them by people like CPT Goddard , and he's quesy because she's a female and was killed doing the job she trained for? Newsflash to the press, our people in A'Stan are not children, or mentally feeble, or one day went to the CFRC and the next magically found themselves in the sandbox in harm's way. OUR soldiers, the one's risking their *** for the body of Canada's citizens, are all (for the vast majority) intelligent, self-aware volunteers who have at least one year of military training before there is any thought of sending them overseas operationally. Someone in CPT Goddard's position has a lot of time, sweat, and blood invested in an Army career. Attendant to that is the knowledge that someday bad people might try to do bad things to them if the government of the day tells them to go into a hot zone. I keep hoping the MSM will pull their collective head out of their fat *** and recognize this, but they keep on proving me too optimistic of their intelligence and credibility.

Captain Goddard, you now are truly UBIQUE. I hope one day I will see you on the objective. Until then, we shall not forget.

 

[Enzo]

Wow, I've seen some crass things in my time. The timing would be amusing, if it wasn't for the... 'er, timing.

I don't understand why such people justify themselves by speaking for "all of us?" I don't recall being asked frankly. But since he wrote an editorial of such quality, I'm afraid it's back to the basics.

From the dictionary:
equality - |i?kwälit?|
noun
the state of being equal, esp. in status, rights, and opportunities

And of course, that leads us to the thesaurus:
equality
noun
1 we promote equality for women fairness, equal rights, equal opportunities, equity, egalitarianism; impartiality, evenhandedness; justice.

Yada, yada, yada... What year are we living in again? So much accomplished in our own minds, and yet so far to go eh. I was going to counter point that editorial, but why bother. I'd rather just send him an e-mail (thanks for that).

Our military is in Afghanistan fighting for the rights of everyone there, including the issue of equality for woman that is so fundamental. The idea is to bring about the advancement of such things as voting, education, working, etc. Many of these very same issues were hot topics for us as recently as approximately 60 years ago. When were Caucasian females granted the right to vote in Canada again? I'm not even going near the issues that confront minorities as recently as, today. These woman are our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, cousins, daughters, girlfriends, etc. Really?? No... REALLY bud? Thanks for clarifying that little point since apparently the Canadian public is a tad on the ignorant side of such matters. Woman are also our colleagues, bosses, coworkers, friends, confidants, lovers, and everything else that one can imagine. To be so condescendingly arrogant infuriates so many of my senses that I find the best recourse is to simply laugh, for that was a ridiculously laughable editorial.

In summation. Leading by example is amongst the finest forms of instruction. The Afghans are not stupid and they are watching and learning. So is the world. Female rights and equality? Canada is leading from the front whether mysogynists such as this care to admit it or not; that may be a harsh statement, but to patronize as he did doesn't lend itself well to love, especially when it's shrouded in such dispassion.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Also, right or wrong, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but the death of a woman or child anywhere does bother me more than that of a man. Don't get me wrong, both male and female deaths bother me but I think my upbringing tends to want to protect women and children, while letting men sort themselves out.

Agreed to the point of wanting to protect women and children , however, once those children become funtioning adults they can make the desicion on how they wish to live, serve and, possibly, die. I don't think of her as our first female combat casuality, I think of Capt. Goddard, a fellow Gunner who gave everything she had,...for us.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Women are not suited to combat role, Mike Strobel argues"

Whoever wrote that subtitle into the article has vacated his intellect.  Strobel's article in no way attempts to argue that women are not suited to combat roles; the theme of Strobel's article is that some people are unsuited to observe women filling combat roles.  It wouldn't be the first time that one person's emotional instability has been promoted as a reason to restrain another person's freedoms, but I prefer not to go down that road again.  If someone wishes to argue that a person or class of people is unsuited to combat, he'll have to make that argument on the basis of that person or class of people's merits.