Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[dogger1936]

Women NCM's in my Armd unit have had very mixed results. None have made it past the rank of Cpl that I am aware of. Many completed a BE and were either married and out, medically released, or OT'd shortly after.

We have had a few females who really stood out above their male peer's who have gone on to serve in SF roles out of the Armd trade.However those who were outstanding soldiers regardless of gender all moved onto other trades.

Women within the NCM ranks of combat arms I would have to say are the lowest in my unit. Based on only personal observations women don't stick around in my trade as NCM's.

 

[jeffb]

That is not the case in the artillery. I know of at least 3 women Warrant Officers and soon 3 of the 5 Maj's at 2 RCHA will be women.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Is this a subtle troll? Because it smells like it.

This comment in conjunction with the 'I'm a cutter' one has me thinking the same.

 

[dogger1936]

That is not the case in the artillery. I know of at least 3 women Warrant Officers and soon 3 of the 5 Maj's at 2 RCHA will be women.

Seems to be quite a few in the infantry in comparison as well.

 

[Rifleman62]

Info on changes in the US Army.

http://www.military.com/news/article/army-opens-jobs-in-combat-battalions-to-women.html?ESRC=topstories.RSS

(US) Army Opens Jobs in Combat Battalions to Women

May 16, 2012 - Associated Press - Kristin M. Hall

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. -- Female soldiers this week are moving into new jobs in once all-male units as the Army breaks down formal barriers in recognition of what has already happened in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The policy change announced earlier this year is being tested at nine brigades, including one at Fort Campbell, before going Army-wide. It opens thousands of jobs to female soldiers by loosening restrictions meant to keep them away from the battlefield. Experience on the ground in the past decade showed women were fighting and dying alongside male soldiers anyway.

Col. Val Keaveny Jr., commander of the 4th Brigade Combat Team that is among units piloting the change, told The Associated Press that for the last decade it has been common to have women temporarily attached to the combat units and serve alongside them.

"Women have served in our Army since the Revolutionary War and they have done phenomenal work and continue to do so today," he said. "There is great talent and now we can have it in the headquarters of infantry, armor and cavalry."

Under the new policy, female officers and non-commissioned officers will be assigned to combat units below the brigade level. The change will open up about 14,000 new jobs for women in the military, but there are still more than 250,000 jobs that remain closed to women.

The new jobs within combat battalions are in personnel, intelligence, logistics, signal corps, medical and chaplaincy. The Army is also opening jobs that were once entirely closed to women, such as mechanics for tanks and artillery and rocket launcher crew members.

The 4th Brigade draws its lineage from the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, whose World War II heroics led to books and a TV miniseries called the "Band of Brothers." But these days, Keaveny said there are more than 350 women already serving in the brigade and they will be opening 36 new jobs to women in the battalions.

"For the last 10 years, we have been fighting alongside women. In my experience I have seen that the Band of Brothers quickly integrate their sisters and they are a family," he said.

Capt. Elizabeth Evans, a 44-year-old mother of five, is one of the first women assigned to the combat battalions. She will be serving as a battalion S1, whose job is to oversee personnel issues within the battalion, including awards, casualties, human resources and other administrative responsibilities. She said there is a lot of pride associated with serving in an infantry unit.

"I think there's a rich history in the 101st and especially the 4th Brigade Combat Team," she said. "To me that means something. It means something to be a part of not necessarily history, but to be a part of a once all-male battalion."

Evans, who has deployed to Afghanistan, noted that women have been serving in dangerous jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan for 10 years.

"With the fluidity of the battlefield and how there are no front lines, it just makes more sense to me to allow women to come into those roles, those non-combat staff roles," she said.

Keaveny said these changes will have minimum impact on where women will be located while deployed. Battalion headquarters are generally located at bases where women were already stationed and the Army has been using female engagement teams to reach out to civilians in remote areas.

"Quite honestly, we don't see there's going to be any friction," he said.

Kayla Williams, author of "Love My Rifle More Than You: Young and Female in the US Army," served with the 3rd Brigade Combat Team under the 101st Airborne Division during the initial invasion into Iraq as an enlisted soldier in military intelligence.

Early in the war, she wasn't even issued plates for her ballistic vest "because females can't serve in combat," she said. She said once she was temporarily attached to an infantry battalion at Fort Campbell that had no female latrines.

As an Arabic translator, she was attached to infantry units rather than assigned, but doing the same things as her male infantry counterparts, including going on foot patrols and living in remote combat outposts.

"Women have been serving in very forward deployed roles, and women have been serving side-by-side with combat arms personnel, just not in a formalized assigned method," said Williams, who is a fellow at the Truman National Security Project.

She said these incremental changes could improve the professional development of both men and women in the military, but acknowledged that the military still has a long way to go to leveling the field for women.

"It is my personal opinion that the institutionalization of women as not being able to serve in combat arms has a way of subtly allowing sexism within the military," she said.

Evans said she hopes the expanded roles will encourage more women to consider a career in the Army.

"I think for females in general, it's bringing us new avenues for accomplishments, for professional growth. In my personal belief, we are a part of supporting our infantryman," she said.

 

[Rifleman62]

Fits into subject, although US Army.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/army-reviews-women-ranger-school-16360414#.T7QyN8U8W08

Army Reviews Whether Women Can Go to Ranger School

LOLITA C. BALDOR - Associated Press - WASHINGTON May 16, 2012 (AP)

U.S. Army leaders have begun to study the prospect of sending female soldiers to the service's prestigious Ranger school — another step in the effort to broaden opportunities for women in the military.

Gen. Raymond Odierno, Army chief of staff, said Monday that he's asked senior commanders to provide him with recommendations and a plan this summer. And while he stressed that no decisions have been made, he suggested that Ranger school may be a logical next step for women as they move into more jobs closer to the combat lines.

"If we determine that we're going to allow women to go in the infantry and be successful, they are probably at some time going to have to go through Ranger school," Odierno told reporters. "If we decide to do this, we want the women to be successful."

According to Odierno, about 90 percent of senior Army infantry officers have gone to the school and are qualified as Rangers. Allowing women to go to Ranger school, he said, would allow them to be competitive with their male counterparts as they move through the ranks.

Going to Ranger school, however, does not automatically mean women would be allowed to serve in one of the Army's three elite Ranger battalions, which are Army special operations forces. In fact, many male soldiers who wear the coveted Ranger tab on their uniforms never actually serve in one of the three battalions.

Currently, women are not allowed to serve as special operations, infantry or armor forces, which are considered the most dangerous combat jobs. They are, however, allowed to serve in a number of support jobs such as medics, military police and intelligence officers that are sometimes attached to combat brigade units.

Odierno said his commanders are looking at whether the Army should open up infantry and armor jobs to women, and how that should be done.

As of this week, 200 women reported to nine different battalions around the country, as the Army implements plans to formally allow women to serve in smaller units that are closer to the front lines. New Pentagon rules allowing women to serve at the battalion level — rather than just the larger brigade — were unveiled earlier this year, opening up about 14,000 more jobs for women across all the military services. There are currently more than 250,000 positions that are closed to women.

A brigade is roughly 3,500 troops split into several battalions of about 800 soldiers each. Historically, brigades were based farther from the front lines and they often include top command and support staff, while battalions are usually in closer contact with the enemy.

Women make up about 16 percent of the Army.

 

[armyvern]

Well, good on the US ... finally. About 2.5 decades too late and still no combat trades; I figure it'll be at least another 2.5 decades for them to catch up to us on that front.

Really?? They need to trial this "experiment" despite the fact their chicks have, in effect, been doing this in a war zone for the past decade? Interesting ... wow.

 

[dimsum]

I can't remember if this was mentioned here already, but the Australian Army is also considering opening combat positions to women.  In fact, a delegation of female CF personnel are currently in Australia as advisors for a few weeks.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/canadian-women-share-combat-experiences/3997306

 

[Jarnhamar]

She said once she was temporarily attached to an infantry battalion at Fort Campbell that had no female latrines.

Well that's just disgusting!

Going to Ranger school, however, does not automatically mean women would be allowed to serve in one of the Army's three elite Ranger battalions, which are Army special operations forces. In fact, many male soldiers who wear the coveted Ranger tab on their uniforms never actually serve in one of the three battalions.

Unless placed in a ranger battalion taking the course and getting the tab can be largely a prestige thing for SNCOs and officers-that from a tabbed officer down in California. (who wasn't in a ranger battalion)

 

[cupper]

Really?? They need to trial this "experiment" despite the fact their chicks have, in effect, been doing this in a war zone for the past decade? Interesting ... wow.

Now Vern! It's attitudes like calling them chicks that has kept the US from being more progressive. >

 

[M_M]

PT - isn't so "hollywood" crazy. Most PSP staff are considerate enough to offer alternate, scaled exercises for people that are hurt or just not as strong at some exercises (break up pushups into sets of 10, do them on knees, etc.). Group PT with your unit may also get split into two groups: fast group/slow group so that its more fair for everyone. And the odd time the person leading PT insists that everyone MUST stay together, you generally don't leave people behind or try to work the most broken/unfit person to death. That's not the point of PT!

So you achieved the same scores on the ExPres as males in your age group?  Just curious.......

If you think about it... I think it's actually quite achievable, even the exemption standards are not unattainable (minus the hand grip part - most women I know can only do about 60kg).

So much debate over fitness standards! Can't count the number of times I've heard "if you have to do the same job, you should be able to run as far and do just as many push ups!" thrown around.

 

[AshleyK]

I've been recently enrolled as a reserve RMS clerk in the 1NSH, and been to a night of training in that trade at my local armory. I've been given July 3rd as my start date for BMQ/SQ. As far as I know, I will be completing this at Camp Aldershot, just outside Kentville, NS. I don't know if anyone on here has trained here or not, but I have a couple of questions.

1. I'm female, and I've already been told that I'll be bunking with other women. Does anyone know if they separate the women in training from men or do they work together in drill and other exercises? This question arises because during the enrollment fitness test, the passing qualifications for women were lower than men. Men do 15 pushups, women 9, that sort of thing. So I wasn't sure if due to the different expectations for each gender, if they would be grouped together or apart during BMQ/SQ.

2. What can one expect as far as the food goes? I've heard different things, and I guess it may be largely opinion-based, but is it relatable to say, cafeteria food, diner food, gourmet food (I know the last option is probably a no).

3. Weekend leave/family visitation: I know that they do have the option to take weekend leaves away. If I do happen to get weekend leave, would it be plausible to have my family visit me and for me to meet them off-base for say, dinner or something? Or friends, for that matter.

4. The kit I was assigned: It is a LOT of stuff. Am I expected to bring it all with me to BMQ? I know some of the things are for winter (heavy jackets, white boot coverings, etc), and this is a summer course, could I leave them home?

5. Technology: I know you are allowed to bring a cellphone with you, as long as you have it turned off during class time. Is it common for some to bring a laptop? Not that I would want to, I doubt you would have much time for such a thing.

6. Makeup: I've been told that there is NO makeup allowed in BMQ. I don't know how many girls are here, but would you be able to get away with say a little mascara or something? Not to sound like I can't live without makeup, I definitely can. I'm just curious.

7. Female underwear: I know I was issued unisex green boxer-like underwear. But I don't know what to do about bras or if there are any specifications. I'm guessing sports ones would do? Any girls out there have advice?

Thanks!

 

[MikeL]

Search.. asked and answered.

Yes, you will be in a Platoon with men and women all mixed together.  There is no male platoons and female platoons.

Food.. all depends on what base you goto, it will be mess hall/cafeteria food. In the field you will be eating rations, and maybe hayboxes.

Weekend leave.. if you get it yes you can meet friends/family off base and go to dinner.

Most likely the course kitlist will ask you to bring all issued equipment, uniforms, etc  Don't pick and choose what to bring, follow the kitlist. 

cellphones may be allowed when you are finished for the day,  but 100% not allowed while training.

Makeup...  why bother with it?  As for if it is allowed or not,  I can't say.  But if it is,  it would have to be a natural appearance.



Your joining instructions will cover a lot of info,  as well as your course staff once you arrive.  I'm sure your unit will also give you info, and answer questions.  Also,  you would be doing BMQ and BMQ-Land,  SQ is the older course/name for BMQ-Land.

 

[M_M]

6. Makeup: I've been told that there is NO makeup allowed in BMQ. I don't know how many girls are here, but would you be able to get away with say a little mascara or something? Not to sound like I can't live without makeup, I definitely can. I'm just curious.

7. Female underwear: I know I was issued unisex green boxer-like underwear. But I don't know what to do about bras or if there are any specifications. I'm guessing sports ones would do? Any girls out there have advice?

Thanks!

Why wear mascara? Do you want to sweat it off and have it dripping all over? Save yourself the potential for getting jacked up and leave it in your purse.

Don't worry about undergarments. Just wear what you have. The boxers are actually preferable to prevent chaffing during long ruck marches (esp if you have voluptuous thighs). Don't wear bras with underwire, avoid the fancy lingere stuff. Doing basic in the summer = sweating your balls off. Get some nice comfy sport bras from Lululemon.

 

[Strike]

Why wear mascara? Do you want to sweat it off and have it dripping all over? Save yourself the potential for getting jacked up and leave it in your purse.

Don't worry about undergarments. Just wear what you have. The boxers are actually preferable to prevent chaffing during long ruck marches (esp if you have voluptuous thighs). Don't wear bras with underwire, avoid the fancy lingere stuff. Doing basic in the summer = sweating your balls off. Get some nice comfy sport bras from Lululemon.

Re: the chaffing, go buy some running shorts.  You can wear them under your issued shorts (do they still issue shorts?) and are better than the issued gitch in my opinion.

 

[PMedMoe]

Get some nice comfy sport bras from Lululemon.

Or some place where it won't cost half your paycheck.....  :

Any sports bra will do.  Unless you need, ummm, extra support. 

Concur on the running shorts or biking shorts (although I've never used them).  The issued gitch tend to ride up, possibly making chafing worse.

 

[ttlbmg]

A friend of mine just took off for basic in May, and she shopped EVERYWHERE for a good sports bra. (rather than just something you pull over your head) She found that the Under Armour sports bra was best choice. (she has a Lululemon one as well- she's an athletic wear junkie) She said the Under Armour one is great because it has a clasp in the back. She said it makes it faster changing out of her PT strip. They run about $78, which is pricey. Good luck though, I am sure once you get there, you'll find your own preferences as well!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I've been recently enrolled as a reserve RMS clerk in the 1NSH, and been to a night of training in that trade at my local armory. I've been given July 3rd as my start date for BMQ/SQ. As far as I know, I will be completing this at Camp Aldershot, just outside Kentville, NS. I don't know if anyone on here has trained here or not, but I have a couple of questions.

FTFY.

Congrats.  Aldershot, while not the hub of NATO, is not too bad all things considered and not a far drive from Pictou or Truro.  Its improved 1000% since I did a course there in '93. 

1. I'm female, and I've already been told that I'll be bunking with other women. Does anyone know if they separate the women in training from men or do they work together in drill and other exercises? This question arises because during the enrollment fitness test, the passing qualifications for women were lower than men. Men do 15 pushups, women 9, that sort of thing. So I wasn't sure if due to the different expectations for each gender, if they would be grouped together or apart during BMQ/SQ.

The requirements in the entrance PT test/EXPRES test are different but thats where it ends.  Every recruit will be expected to perform to their "100% effort" level.  If Johny can run faster than Suzie, but Johny is giving it 60% effort and Suzie is giving it 101%, I'd say "good job" to Suzie and jack Johny up.  Point?  There is no difference in performance expected.  On things like ruck marches, you will carry the same stuff the same distance in the same time as every regardless of the gender, favorite bedtime story or anything else (except if you are hurt and the Medic's give you light duties, or something like that of course).

2. What can one expect as far as the food goes? I've heard different things, and I guess it may be largely opinion-based, but is it relatable to say, cafeteria food, diner food, gourmet food (I know the last option is probably a no).

I haven't been to Aldershot in some time, but when I was there in '01 putting a course thru in the summer the food was actually pretty damn good.  I would call it "really good diner-style caferteria food".  The best part about the food in the "reservist on summer course" world is, of course, that you don't pay for it, Joe and Jane Taxpayer do. 

3. Weekend leave/family visitation: I know that they do have the option to take weekend leaves away. If I do happen to get weekend leave, would it be plausible to have my family visit me and for me to meet them off-base for say, dinner or something? Or friends, for that matter.

You course staff will explain all of this, but there are times you may be allowed to leave the confines of the camp for the weekend.  Normally, if you are leaving the immediate geographical area, you will fill out, sign and submit a CF-100 (Leave Request form/leave pass) that your Chain of Command will sign and you will have on your while off base and off duty.  If you aren't leaving the Kentville & surrounding areas, you may not require a leave pass.  There will likely be a sign-out book for this type of time off the camp when not on duty or CBd (Confined to Base).  Expect to be CBd more often than not, especially at first.  If you are CBd, well mentally you are ready for it.  If you are not CBd...gravy.

4. The kit I was assigned: It is a LOT of stuff. Am I expected to bring it all with me to BMQ? I know some of the things are for winter (heavy jackets, white boot coverings, etc), and this is a summer course, could I leave them home?

5. Technology: I know you are allowed to bring a cellphone with you, as long as you have it turned off during class time. Is it common for some to bring a laptop? Not that I would want to, I doubt you would have much time for such a thing.

As said, follow the kitlist.  If you are unsure, remember the rule "its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it".

7. Female underwear: I know I was issued unisex green boxer-like underwear. But I don't know what to do about bras or if there are any specifications. I'm guessing sports ones would do? Any girls out there have advice?

Thanks!

The new boxer like underwear are actually not too bad, but Aldershot is in a bit of a punchbowl and tends to get hot as frack with little wind blowing. 

While I am not a girl, my wife is and we go to the gym, hike, camp alot, etc, stuff alot like some of what you will be doing.  She is one of those "needs the extra support" types and she wears the sports bra's from Mark's Work Warehouse (the WindRiver ones), after trying different Nike/Addidas/etc ones.  She loves the ones from Marks.  I am also a fan of their Dri Wear brand for baselayer stuff, and while alittle pricey, I won't buy anything else now.  The Dri Wear ProMesh cycle shorts are my summer hiking gitch now, and less $$ than alot of other stuff.  Not sure about female Dri Wear gitch selection but worth a look if you aren't happy with the green boxer-briefs.

Electronic stuff;  only bring what you won't mind other people bugging you to lend them, or getting used in the room you share, or getting dirty, or that might get stolen or broken.  If its something near and dear to you, I'd leave it home and get a cheap DVD player or something.  There is no wi-fi AFAIK in the shacks or the Jnr Ranks mess.

 

[PrettyMaggie63]

I've been recently enrolled as a reserve RMS clerk in the 1NSH, and been to a night of training in that trade at my local armory. I've been given July 3rd as my start date for BMQ/SQ. As far as I know, I will be completing this at Camp Aldershot, just outside Kentville, NS. I don't know if anyone on here has trained here or not, but I have a couple of questions.

6. Makeup: I've been told that there is NO makeup allowed in BMQ. I don't know how many girls are here, but would you be able to get away with say a little mascara or something? Not to sound like I can't live without makeup, I definitely can. I'm just curious.


Really, one night of training and you are already thinking about breaking the rules. If you were told "NO makeup allowed in BMQ" why would you even ask that question. IMHO they probably mean "no makeup allowed in BMQ".   

 

[Loachman]

You will be issued all of the make-up that you need during working hours.


















In lovely earthy tones of green and brown.