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Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

I wrote a long and wordy response to a couple of the posts in this thread, then decided better of posting it as there are some here who are directly involved in what took place and I don't want to start any drama with my assessments of where and to whom the blame belongs for this tragedy. I'm not an expert, nor was I involved I just happen to be in the same line of work and have opinions. All I'll say is while I do agree a portion of blame belongs to the RCMP, most of it belongs elsewhere in my opinion. If anybody would like to know my rationale or reasoning behind it, by all means shoot me a PM.
 
There's only 1 person who is responsible for killing those people. Full stop. The RCMP put that POS down.

Mistakes were made, lessons were learned. Sure. Blaming the RCMP for someone putting a gun on their victim and pulling the trigger is unfair (nicest word I can use).
 
I wrote a long and wordy response to a couple of the posts in this thread, then decided better of posting it as there are some here who are directly involved in what took place and I don't want to start any drama with my assessments of where and to whom the blame belongs for this tragedy. I'm not an expert, nor was I involved I just happen to be in the same line of work and have opinions. All I'll say is while I do agree a portion of blame belongs to the RCMP, most of it belongs elsewhere in my opinion. If anybody would like to know my rationale or reasoning behind it, by all means shoot me a PM.
i think I’ll have to follow the same thought. I appreciate you mentioning that. Good advice.

I don’t think the members directly involved did anything other than what they could- making sense out of havoc.
 
There's only 1 person who is responsible for killing those people. Full stop. The RCMP put that POS down.

Mistakes were made, lessons were learned. Sure. Blaming the RCMP for someone putting a gun on their victim and pulling the trigger is unfair (nicest word I can use).
"Mistakes were made, lessons were learned."

LOTS of mistakes were made. Lessons were identified. It remains to be seen whether they were 'learned' or not.
 
"Mistakes were made, lessons were learned."

LOTS of mistakes were made. Lessons were identified. It remains to be seen whether they were 'learned' or not.

Being fair to the responding LEOs, though (which they deserve), this was an unprecedented level of killing over a vast area than ever experienced before in Canada.

And, done by a determined killer who had near-perfect camouflage and mobility.
 
there is an ongoing conversation about getting rid of 870s because of the cost to retrofit them with the new items they need (lights etc)

Yeesh. Even I know that carbines and shotguns are different tools, not the least of differences being how far lethality extends into unknown backgrounds.

Relatively speaking: equipment is cheap, equipment is cheap, equipment is cheap.
 
Being fair to the responding LEOs, though (which they deserve), this was an unprecedented level of killing over a vast area than ever experienced before in Canada.

And, done by a determined killer who had near-perfect camouflage and mobility.
I assigned no blame. I just don't have any faith in the current administration to do anything positive once the inquiry is over. Including remediating deficiencies in equipment, policy or application. They will remain status quo.
 
I assigned no blame. I just don't have any faith in the current administration to do anything positive once the inquiry is over. Including remediating deficiencies in equipment, policy or application. They will remain status quo.
An inquiry will occur, that doesn't mean any of those recommendations will be followed.

We all know this is the way.
 
I assigned no blame. I just don't have any faith in the current administration to do anything positive once the inquiry is over. Including remediating deficiencies in equipment, policy or application. They will remain status quo.

I can’t say my thoughts are any different. Fixing deficiencies = funding. The earlier post re: the 870 is an indication of how “need funding” is reacted to by bean counters removed from operational reality and needs.
 
The only one responsible for the deaths is the shooter. Hindsight revealed that some mistakes were made along the way that could have changed some outcomes (for better or worse). Some of the mistakes appear pretty significant and should be looked into (with the caveat that this was an unprecedented and police are human).

The problem as far as I can see is transparency and accountability. The RCMP are not a transparent organization and they resist attempts to turn into one. That's not just my uneducated opinion, that's from the previous head of the civilian watchdog organization that investigates the police. The RCMP (as an organization) go out of their way to not be transparent.

An inquiry into this shooting was pushed back against from the start. "We don't need one". They weren't going to have an inquiry until political pressure (I suspect people wanted to get voted in again) caved.

Then we're told that not all police involved will be required to testify or speak again. We're to trust their notes are captured elsewhere and it's all good. They didn't want police reliving traumatic events. Sure, definitely sad for the officers, but (allegedly) being left to die, possibly face covered by a sheet, is probably pretty damn traumatic too. And that event wasn't even captured in this inquiry. I'll say it again, what else did the RCMP choose to leave out of the inquiry?

I genuinely feel bad for the many good cops out there taking heat because of their organization, just like we have the CAF.
 
The only one responsible for the deaths is the shooter. Hindsight revealed that some mistakes were made along the way that could have changed some outcomes (for better or worse). Some of the mistakes appear pretty significant and should be looked into (with the caveat that this was an unprecedented and police are human).

The problem as far as I can see is transparency and accountability. The RCMP are not a transparent organization and they resist attempts to turn into one. That's not just my uneducated opinion, that's from the previous head of the civilian watchdog organization that investigates the police. The RCMP (as an organization) go out of their way to not be transparent.

An inquiry into this shooting was pushed back against from the start. "We don't need one". They weren't going to have an inquiry until political pressure (I suspect people wanted to get voted in again) caved.

Then we're told that not all police involved will be required to testify or speak again. We're to trust their notes are captured elsewhere and it's all good. They didn't want police reliving traumatic events. Sure, definitely sad for the officers, but (allegedly) being left to die, possibly face covered by a sheet, is probably pretty damn traumatic too. And that event wasn't even captured in this inquiry. I'll say it again, what else did the RCMP choose to leave out of the inquiry?

I genuinely feel bad for the many good cops out there taking heat because of their organization, just like we have the CAF.
Dude it's the same with the CAF. The CAF is literally expending tens of thousands of hours of staff work, rearranging the deck chairs, when the very top of the pyramid, The CDS & The Chief of Military Justice, were both found to be corrupt. Absolutely nothing has been done about changing the conditions that allowed that to occur.
 
Does this indicate it’s the govt that doesn’t want to be transparent? Sometimes the kids are bad when the parents let them get away with it too much…
 
I don’t think the members directly involved did anything other than what they could- making sense out of havoc.
Absolutely. After a night of seemingly random, indiscriminate, repeated wanton violence - still ongoing - committed over a wide area by a still-mobile perpetrator and not yet fully comprehended. Unprecedented in Canada and, in terms of geographic scope and the apparent successful use of the 'police personna' cover, perhaps unprecedented anywhere.

A perpetrator who reportedly drives a police car and described as wearing a safety vest. After long, stressful hours, you're paranoid; driving down the road you come across exactly what you fear.

The reaction wasn't right but, to me it was understandable. Would better SOPS, a more robust radio system (and/or better radio discipline) have made it better/ Perhaps, keeping in mind that policy and SOPs are either mere guidelines or hidebound rules, depending on who you ask. This is rural Nova Scotia, not Beirut. Relatively speaking, a handful of cops, a number of whom probably aren't fully familiar with the area, are trying to deal with that and their fears.

Something like this is one of the big challenges of law enforcement. You're expected to be part of the community; friendly; a problem solver; friend of kids; a keeper of peace and safety; highly-trained and knowledgeable in a wide range of areas . . . and a steely-eyed warrior at a moments notice. Quite the gymnastics. I used to work with a guy who was very proficient with tactics and his sidearm, and he approached every situation like the person involved was a meth-addled murderer. Very exhausting.
 
Absolutely. After a night of seemingly random, indiscriminate, repeated wanton violence - still ongoing - committed over a wide area by a still-mobile perpetrator and not yet fully comprehended. Unprecedented in Canada and, in terms of geographic scope and the apparent successful use of the 'police personna' cover, perhaps unprecedented anywhere.

A perpetrator who reportedly drives a police car and described as wearing a safety vest. After long, stressful hours, you're paranoid; driving down the road you come across exactly what you fear.

The reaction wasn't right but, to me it was understandable. Would better SOPS, a more robust radio system (and/or better radio discipline) have made it better/ Perhaps, keeping in mind that policy and SOPs are either mere guidelines or hidebound rules, depending on who you ask. This is rural Nova Scotia, not Beirut. Relatively speaking, a handful of cops, a number of whom probably aren't fully familiar with the area, are trying to deal with that and their fears.

Something like this is one of the big challenges of law enforcement. You're expected to be part of the community; friendly; a problem solver; friend of kids; a keeper of peace and safety; highly-trained and knowledgeable in a wide range of areas . . . and a steely-eyed warrior at a moments notice. Quite the gymnastics. I used to work with a guy who was very proficient with tactics and his sidearm, and he approached every situation like the person involved was a meth-addled murderer. Very exhausting.
I think about this a lot. I would probably have great difficulty with this and for anyone who knows me, I'm not exactly a kind and gentle person or really in to the touchy/feely stuff LOL.

It's just another reminder that BLUE and GREEN ain't the same game.
 
Then we're told that not all police involved will be required to testify or speak again. We're to trust their notes are captured elsewhere and it's all good. They didn't want police reliving traumatic events. Sure, definitely sad for the officers, but (allegedly) being left to die, possibly face covered by a sheet, is probably pretty damn traumatic too. And that event wasn't even captured in this inquiry. I'll say it again, what else did the RCMP choose to leave out of the inquiry?
Just to touch back on the 'Fitbit' discussion, I was talking to a former colleague who's spouse dropped dead in their house. She started CPR until relieved by fire/rescue and paramedics who also deployed a defibrillator. His Fitbit recorded recorded something as a pulse - yet somehow missed these external and electrical interventions - right up until it was removed from his wrist at the morgue.
 
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