Active Shooter / Hostile Event ( ASHE ) prevention / response

[Loachman]

Yes, and that includes police response, non? Which is a major aspect in this topic.

And, in this particular case, both the standard preventative procedures and the response failed.

Miserably.

Morally.

Possibly criminally.

Which is precisely why such plans should never, ever be considered to be the last resort.

 

[mariomike]

Yes, and that includes police response, non?

Yes,

From the Chief of Atlantic Beach, Florida PD,

 

[mariomike]

March 1, 2018

Ohio signs bill to allow SWAT Paramedics to carry firearms.
https://www.journal-news.com/news/after-three-year-effort-local-lawmaker-kasich-signs-bill-allow-swat-medics-carry-firearms/l4fFKnijE6nf05B2YJb45N/
"It received near-unanimous support in voting with a 92-2 vote in the Ohio House and a 31-0 vote in the Ohio Senate."

“SWAT EMTs are a special breed of individuals,” Retherford said. “They are often employed by local fire departments as a paramedic or EMT and volunteer their time to be the medic for SWAT teams. These men and women are often part of weekly training, learning group SWAT tactics, participate in firearms training and when called out, can very much find themselves in harm’s way, the same as any other member of the team.

What most don’t know is that these medical professionals train shoulder to shoulder with their peers on the professional SWAT teams,” Hagan said. “I have spent time with our tactical training facility professionals in Alliance who are nationally recognized for their efforts. We discussed in great detail the need for this legislation with our officers who train alongside the nation’s elite, including the FBI."

 

[Furniture]

In the Florida example schools are gun free for all but police or peace officers. So given the current state law they would need new special rules, or as posted earlier special deputy status. My suggestion is more along the lines of getting rid of the laws making schools gun free, thereby removing the need for special rules for teachers.

If the example Loachman had given occurred in Florida as far as I am aware the priest could be legally "packing" already so there is no need to change anything or arm priests beyond their own interest, or that of their parishioners. Since his example is from Canada where to my knowledge we have no such access to firearms for self defence, my proposal is that ATCs be given to anyone who can demonstrate the correct training, and has a willingness to carry. With a law like that Teachers would be allowed to carry so that they can defend their students in the highly unlikely event that there is a gunperson running amok in the school. Again my idea is more that those willing and interested enough to do the training on their own have the option to carry, or not regardless of their profession.

Since we are questioning the validity of posts and their value to the discussion and community, what does your obvious baiting contribute to the discussion?

 

[brihard]

Could the gun control stuff all be split from the active shooter response split back into the gun control thread?

 

[mariomike]

Broward Sheriff's Captain gave initial order to 'stage' not enter Stoneman Douglas High School during a massacre.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/05/broward-sheriffs-captain-who-gave-initial-order-to-stage-not-enter-stoneman-douglas-is-idd.html

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've been thinking on this. I'm going to try remain balanced.

Denial of Access - Schools should be locked during school hours. Coming late requires an administrator, not a teacher to let you in. ALL school points of access to classrooms should be behind hardened doors with command locks. As soon as a problem is identified (gunshot) the panic button gets hit and all access from the hallways is ended. Or simply, a proper sized pipe slid over the arm on the automatic door closer will stop the door from being opened.

Arming Teachers - Proper training is paramount. No excuses. Teachers are not required to hunt the active shooter. Their job is to protect the students by denying access to the classroom. IF he gets in the door, THEN the teacher engages. Otherwise they stay with the students till the all clear is given.

I'll have to dig around but I seem to recall a couple of college or university incidents that were thwarted by a student carrying concealed.

Just some thoughts on how things might be handled if we're looking for answers. Go ahead and tear them apart, I'm spitballing here.

 

[brihard]

Broward Sheriff's Captain gave initial order to 'stage' not enter Stoneman Douglas High School during a massacre.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/05/broward-sheriffs-captain-who-gave-initial-order-to-stage-not-enter-stoneman-douglas-is-idd.html

Ouch. That changes things somewhat. If he was taking critical incident command )initially, or as a trained incident commander), then that certainly has an effect on the rightness or wrongness of the response of other officers. I'll have to read into this further when I have time.

 

[mariomike]

First report of staging and perimeter was from Fox News. Reply #105.

This is from CBS,

QUOTE

Another claim focuses on Parkland District Commander Captain Jan Jordan and her radio transmission asking if a perimeter had been set up around the school.

CLAIM: “A BSO captain told deputies to form a perimeter around the deadly scene instead of going in to confront the shooter.”

BSO RESPONSE: “The shooting had stopped….The question was asked following transmissions by law enforcement on scene advising of victims located at the football field and near the entrance of Westglades Middle School. Other transmissions stated the location of the suspect was unknown and at least one other communicated units were making entry.”

BSO says that when Captain Jordan asked about that perimeter, Nikolas Cruz was gone from Building 1200, the freshman building. A law enforcement source tells CBS4 News that , at that point, if the shooting had stopped and Cruz was no longer on the premises, setting up a perimeter was exactly the right thing to do.

BSO RESPONSE: BSO says “A perimeter…would be appropriate to apprehend the suspect, stop him from entering the neighboring middle school and prevent non-first responders from coming on the school property…”

Another claim involves the communications between BSO and Coral Springs Police and Fire Rescue. The initial 911 calls from the shooting were received by dispatchers in Coral Springs, not from BSO.

CLAIM: “Real-time audio from dispatch records reveal errors in the law enforcement response.”

BSO RESPONSE: “Coral Springs Fire Rescue was dispatched to the scene of an active shooter. BSO was dispatched shortly after to a call of possible shots fired. Initially, Coral Springs officers and BSO deputies were working on separate radio channels until the channels were patched together. The patching of radio channels was impeded by the fact Coral Springs is not part of the regional communications system. The patching of channels came after the shooter left the school.”

BSO School Resource Officer Scot Peterson quit after learning that he would be suspended for failing to go into the school while the shooter was inside carrying out his murderous rampage. The information released by BSO on Tuesday did not address the accusation that other 3 BSO deputies may have also failed to enter the school.

Another claim is whether deputies were told not to enter the school unless they had body cameras on. BSO says that is absolutely false.

BSO also says that their deputies regularly undergo active shooter training and that the agency is promising transparency throughout this process but cannot release certain records and information because of a number of investigations into the shooting and the response to it.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/03/06/bso-parkland-florida-claims-facts-marjory-stoneman-douglas/

END QUOTE

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Too busy looking at blaming, than moving forward to a better solution. That's what wrong. :facepalm:

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The shooter does not seem to be the target of the blame though.

 

[mariomike]

Governor Scott directed the Florida Department of Law Enforcement ( FDLE ) to investigate the response to the Parkland massacre.

The Report may take time.

eg: The Final Report of the "INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE 2017 PROTEST EVENTS IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA" was only recently released.

It's 220 pages. But, with so much news since then, outside of Emergency Services, how many members of the public will read it?

The reaction may be the same when the Parkland report is released.

 

[muskrat89]

Interesting discussion. I oversee campus security on a University campus in Phoenix. I teach Active Shooter response to staff and faculty. As an aside, I'm part of an armed Church security team at a large Church. I'm also a member of the Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP) I have lots of pertinent perspectives. That being said, I need to read four more pages in order to get caught up lol

 

[muskrat89]

But no, it's not usually 'all over' by the time police go in.

About 60% of the incidents in the US are over by the time the police get there, based on the 2013 study of active shooters between 2000 and 2013. Not sure what that equates to when you roll in data from 2013 until now. When I do Active Shooter presentations for varying entities, I draw a lot of my statistics from this report. I do note the date of the report when I cite statistics however. Also note that this report isn't specific to school shootings only.

http://www.firestorm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/k2_attachments_U-_ActiveShooter13B_WEB.pdf

INCIDENTS
■ An average of 11.4 incidents occurred annually.
■ An average of 6.4 incidents occurred in the first 7 years studied, and an average of 16.4
occurred in the last 7 years.
■ 70.0% of the incidents occurred in either a commerce/business or educational
environment.
■ Shootings occurred in 40 of 50 states and the District of Columbia.
■ 60.0% of the incidents ended before police arrived

CASUALTIES
■ Casualties (victims killed and wounded) totaled 1,043. The individual shooters are not
included in this total.
■ A total of 486 individuals were killed.
■ A total of 557 individuals were wounded.
■ In 64 incidents (40.0%), the crime would have fallen within the federal definition of
“mass killing”—defined as “three or more” killed—under the new federal statute.

INCIDENTS WITH THE HIGHEST CASUALTY COUNTS:
■ Cinemark Century 16 Theater in Aurora, Colorado:
70 (12 killed, 58 wounded), July 20, 2012.
■ Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia:
49 (32 killed, 17 wounded), April 16, 2007.
■ Ft. Hood Soldier Readiness Processing Center in Ft. Hood, Texas:
45 (13 killed, 32 wounded), November 5, 2009.
■ Sandy Hook Elementary School and a residence in Newtown, Connecticut:
29 (27 killed, 2 wounded), December 14, 2012.

SHOOTERS
■ All but 2 incidents involved a single shooter.
■ In at least 9 incidents, the shooter first shot and killed a family member(s) in a
residence before moving to a more public location to continue shooting.
■ In at least 6 incidents, the shooters were female.
■ In 64 incidents (40.0%), the shooters committed suicide; 54 shooters did so at the scene
of the crime.
■ At least 5 shooters from 4 incidents remain at large.

 

[mariomike]

From Canadian Politics,

Canadian content only, please. Let's try clean this up a bit. Start an new thread if you want to discuss US or other nations gun laws. Tanks!

From Emergency Services,

Could the gun control stuff all be split from the active shooter response split back into the gun control thread?

I am starting a new thread in Global Politics to discuss US or other nations gun laws,
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/127588.0.html

 

[RocketRichard]

From Canadian Politics,

From Emergency Services,

I am starting a new thread in Global Politics to discuss US or other nations gun laws,
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/127588.0.html

Excellent. Thanks MM. Our situation in Canada: incidents, threats, school shootings and responses are mostly very different from the U.S.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mariomike]

When First Responders are having an emergency they can count on Motorola to ...go into a 'throttling event,' where it starts to slow down and restrict First Responders from submitting inbound requests to the system,

QUOTE

Years After Sept. 11, Critical Incidents Still Overload Emergency Radios

If you go back and listen to the recording of the Broward County radio dispatch system during the shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School last month, you can hear the frustration the voices of police.

"I can't transmit for some reason," says one officer. Other first responders echo the complaint.

"Just so you know, we're having trouble transmitting," says another person, and more than once, you hear a general plea for users to limit their communications to "10-33 calls" — radio code for an emergency.

"All cities, all radios be advised to keep your traffic to a minimum. With each transmission, it's causing it to crash, it's overloaded right now, per Motorola."

END QUOTE

To read the rest of the story,
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/12/591906701/18-years-after-sept-11-critical-incidents-still-overload-emergency-radios

 

[mariomike]

QUOTE

"Rescue Task Force? Nope. Train Them & Arm Them"
https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/rescue-task-force-nope-train-arm/
"I will never support this unarmed task force crap."

END QUOTE

I have read commentary lately regarding arming Rescue Task Force paramedics. Referring to unarmed RTF paramedics as "the sitting duck squad".

It is important to understand the similarities and differences between Rescue Task Force ( RTF ) paramedics and Emergency Task Force ( ETF ) paramedics.

ETF paramedics are “attached” to the police.

Whereas RTF is a trained, but hastily formed group of paramedics that partner with police on scene for rapid deployment into an ASHE.

ETF and RTF paramedics both wear ballistic vests and helmets.

RTF focuses on using whatever assets happen to be on hand, instead of waiting for ETF.

There is also a financial consideration to arming ETF and RTF paramedics.

Unarmed ETF paramedics in Toronto receive a $1000.00 ( pensionable ) annual premium ( 2105 rate. It has increased slightly since then. )

The author suggests arming paramedics who are deploying into an ASHE. That may, or may not, be a good idea.

But, there would be a cost factor in arming and training. Also, as an added skill set to their job description, a pensionable premium would have to be negotiated / arbitrated with the union.

 

[mariomike]

Are Canada's paramedics and hospitals prepared for a Chemical Weapons Attack ...not really.

QUOTE

Apr 16, 2018

MacLean's

The antidote atropine dries up the excessive salivation and reduces secretions that clog up the airways, countering the effects of excess acetylcholine. Atropine is most commonly used in heart rhythm disturbances where up to one milligram of Atropine is used, but patients with organophosphate poisoning may require up to 100 milligrams.  That far exceeds the three milligram stock of an ambulance, and may even deplete an entire hospital of its supply.

Another drug used for severe cases is pralidoxime, which relieves the muscular effects of the nerve toxin. For weaponized pesticides, pralidoxime needs to be administered within minutes, before the poison binds irreversibly to its target; but pralidoxime is a hard drug to find outside of large hospitals. In some cities, specialized ambulances carry a few doses, but most do not, and even large downtown hospitals only have a handful of doses stocked.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/is-canada-prepared-for-a-chemical-weapon-attack-like-the-one-in-the-u-k/

END QUOTE

Toronto has CBRNE paramedics. Not sure about the rest of the country.

 

[mariomike]

Chicago holds the city’s largest active-shooter drill.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/police-fire-officials-hold-city-largest-active-shooter-drill-at-whitney-young/
"Lines of ambulances and police cruisers outside the school drew curious glances from passersby when the drill began with a fire alarm Thursday evening. Police then pushed back pedestrians and media from the area, to avoid revealing their strategies during the roughly three-hour drill, officials said."