Active Shooter / Hostile Event ( ASHE ) prevention / response
- Thread starter larry Strong
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Instead of hardening schools we could disperse the students. Give each kid a laptop and have them get their education online from the safety of their own homes.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I'd guess that if someone gets their hands on a gun and they make it to school/work place undetected they'll have a high probability of taking out at least few people before being stopped.
Looking at the recent Florida shooting I just can't believe there wasn't more that could have been done to intercept this guy. Mangling small animals, apparently pointing a gun or guns at people's heads. Dozens of police calls. Th repats of violence against people. They had to have been able to get him on the radar and on a weapons ban list for something.
I think it's great the police SOPs are to charge in the minute they get there. If we took a long hard look at prevention and figured out what tools we could give police to do something about crazy behavior and threats we could save a lot of lives. Not even just preventing these people from getting guns but getting them help so they don't just use a knife or car.
Looking at the recent Florida shooting I just can't believe there wasn't more that could have been done to intercept this guy. Mangling small animals, apparently pointing a gun or guns at people's heads. Dozens of police calls. Th repats of violence against people. They had to have been able to get him on the radar and on a weapons ban list for something.
I think it's great the police SOPs are to charge in the minute they get there. If we took a long hard look at prevention and figured out what tools we could give police to do something about crazy behavior and threats we could save a lot of lives. Not even just preventing these people from getting guns but getting them help so they don't just use a knife or car.
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They don't engage at an effective rate of fire.Piece of Cake said:
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Just thinking outside the box
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Chris Pook said:
I have yes, you're right it's hard. It's very difficult to get someone "committed" against their will and essentially have their rights temporarily taken away (at least in Canada) because of mental health.
There's gotta be a way to untie police hands and at the very least get someone put on some sort of no buy list even if they're not convicted felons.
Maybe the US needs a system similar to Canada's, but that would call for a serious revamp for them considering in many states you don't require any sort of liscence to buy a gun.
On one hand I think arming teachers is great but that's going to come with its own problems.
Among them an increase in accidental discharges, teachers forgetting guns around(both of which already happens). It would also possibly make teachers targets theft.
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Chris Pook said:
Sections 16 and 17 of Mental Health Act Ontario, gives grounds to have a person examined for mental health issues.
Not sure if any states have similar laws.
Source: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90m07
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Having armed teachers is the last thing anyone needs. Schools need to have additional security measures put in place, in fact, most schools already do this and new schools are designed in ways that take these things in to account. The problem is that many of our schools are in old buildings with poor access control and no physical security.
My parents were both teachers, my mother rose all the way to the top of the profession and served as a Vice Principal, Principal, Director and finished her career as a School Board Superintendent (one of four in the entire province). As a superintendent she dealt with all sorts of security issues and liaisef with a number of municipal and federal police forces as well as mental health, child protection services, public health, etc.
The last school she was a principal of was very new (built Post-Columbine) and it had taken all the increased security recommendations in to account. The school had a single point of access for the public that led to a reception area with big metal fire doors where visitors had to buzz in and be let in by the Principal's secretary. The School was also sectioned off in to different wings that required key pad access to different sections of the building. This allowed the school staff to control who entered the premises and where they went, they also had 360 degree coverage of the school via CCTV cameras.
The system worked and successfully prevented a few incidents. School shootings aren't the only threat a school faces, child predators, irate parents, you name it my mother has dealt with it. One incident I remember involved a pare nt who had their child taken away by child services show up and try to get their child back. They were seen approaching the building, police were called and they were arrested at the entrance without incident.
My parents were both teachers, my mother rose all the way to the top of the profession and served as a Vice Principal, Principal, Director and finished her career as a School Board Superintendent (one of four in the entire province). As a superintendent she dealt with all sorts of security issues and liaisef with a number of municipal and federal police forces as well as mental health, child protection services, public health, etc.
The last school she was a principal of was very new (built Post-Columbine) and it had taken all the increased security recommendations in to account. The school had a single point of access for the public that led to a reception area with big metal fire doors where visitors had to buzz in and be let in by the Principal's secretary. The School was also sectioned off in to different wings that required key pad access to different sections of the building. This allowed the school staff to control who entered the premises and where they went, they also had 360 degree coverage of the school via CCTV cameras.
The system worked and successfully prevented a few incidents. School shootings aren't the only threat a school faces, child predators, irate parents, you name it my mother has dealt with it. One incident I remember involved a pare nt who had their child taken away by child services show up and try to get their child back. They were seen approaching the building, police were called and they were arrested at the entrance without incident.
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Humphrey Bogart,
I agree teachers should not be armed. I also agree that in older schools, security could be improved. However, the risk with new security measures, card swipes, readers, mag locks, ect. is fire. The last thing anyone wants to see is students die because they are trapped in a burning school.
Yes, when the fire alarm goes off the mag locks should release, and card swipes become inactive. However, from personal experience, i know these systems sometimes fail.
I agree teachers should not be armed. I also agree that in older schools, security could be improved. However, the risk with new security measures, card swipes, readers, mag locks, ect. is fire. The last thing anyone wants to see is students die because they are trapped in a burning school.
Yes, when the fire alarm goes off the mag locks should release, and card swipes become inactive. However, from personal experience, i know these systems sometimes fail.
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Piece of Cake said:
You realize on key swipe doors, the doors can always be opened from the other side of the swipe. It's called a fire door for a reason.
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Humphrey Bogart said:
And your going to ask students aged anywhere from 5-19, to not hit the emergency release switch on a meg lock door during a non-emergency?
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Piece of Cake said:
Doesn't know if he is trolling or serious :dunno:
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From the transcript of the Broward County Sheriff's interview.
The full transcript is here, if interested,
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/sheriff-israel-sotu-full-transcript/index.html
A couple of things caught my eye. It is still under investigation. We will have to wait until all of the facts are in.
QUOTE
One of the things that we have heard -- and I don't know if this is true or not -- I can -- hope you can shed light on it -- is that there might have been a stand-down order, somebody on the radio telling Broward deputies not to enter this school until a SWAT team arrived.
A medical first-responder told local news station WSVN that medical personnel were asking to go into the school, but law enforcement wouldn't let them.
END QUOTE
The full transcript is here, if interested,
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/sheriff-israel-sotu-full-transcript/index.html
A couple of things caught my eye. It is still under investigation. We will have to wait until all of the facts are in.
QUOTE
One of the things that we have heard -- and I don't know if this is true or not -- I can -- hope you can shed light on it -- is that there might have been a stand-down order, somebody on the radio telling Broward deputies not to enter this school until a SWAT team arrived.
A medical first-responder told local news station WSVN that medical personnel were asking to go into the school, but law enforcement wouldn't let them.
END QUOTE
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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Sometimes you just gotta love Samuel L Jackson:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5431807/Samuel-L-Jackson-pulls-no-punches-savages-Trump.html
;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5431807/Samuel-L-Jackson-pulls-no-punches-savages-Trump.html
;D
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As part of my business I write emergency response plans for post-secondary institutions. Without exception every municipal police department, RCMP or other, I have consulted with has advised me the drill is first officer on the scene goes after the shooter and does not wait for backup. This procedure is included in the schools plan so they know what to expect. Something smells really bad with what happened in Florida regarding the police response but I am interested to see what transpires when more investigation is done.
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OldTanker said:
Pure conjecture on my part.
The School Resource Officer ( SRO ) is 54 years old. Been on the job since 1985. We know for sure he did not go in.
Broward Sheriff Officers ( BSO ) arrive. This is the SRO's school until a Supervisor arrives. If he isn't going in, maybe the others take his cue?
Possible BSO radio-chatter about setting up a perimeter, staging and waiting for SWAT.
Coral Springs officers begin to arrive. They are not on the same radio frequency as BSO. So, in they go.
That's just armchair speculation about what possibly might have happened.
As always, we wait for the investigation to be complete before making a rush to judgement.
I would be interested in hearing the radio tapes.
Some have unofficially dubbed the unarmed Rescue Task Force ( RTF ), "the sitting duck squad."
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daftandbarmy
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The US will never give up its guns, so Plan B should include better security.
When a pattern of violence emerges, security agencies usually stand up task forces to address them. I don't see why the Federal Government can't create a 'Soft Target Protection' force of some kind with responsibility for protecting schools, large public events, etc.
In Northern Ireland, we provided that kind of security all the time with cordons, 'no notice' searches, and other measures to provide overt (and under cover) presence to deter potential terrorist attack. These Company and Battalion level operations were integrated with local police divisions and were very effective.
When a pattern of violence emerges, security agencies usually stand up task forces to address them. I don't see why the Federal Government can't create a 'Soft Target Protection' force of some kind with responsibility for protecting schools, large public events, etc.
In Northern Ireland, we provided that kind of security all the time with cordons, 'no notice' searches, and other measures to provide overt (and under cover) presence to deter potential terrorist attack. These Company and Battalion level operations were integrated with local police divisions and were very effective.
