A reply to Taliban Jack from Friends DownUnder

[neko]

You'd be surprised how large of a segment of the Canadian population buys a lot of their stuff... almost as many that buy the far-right wing babble.

There is hope though, the NDP didn't win in any ridings in our provincial elections.
I was so happy, (though that was marred somewhat due to the liberals getting in).
Perhaps people are beginning to realise what a bunch of wacked out space junkies they are.

 

[neko]

Of course not..... He is after all a politician..... IMHO they all lie.......  Like  cheap rugs.......

Well maybe, but generally not quite so umm, stupidly, overtly, mindlessly etc. They don't usually wish to be seen as lying, and he's doing it right out in the open where anyone can spot it if they so choose.

Heh, exactly like a cheap rug, not smooth and neat and tidy, but a twisted, bumpy, unravelling piece of ****.

 

[Bartok5]

"When I calmly pointed out Mr Creitien has dispatched Canadian soldiers to the Kandahar region in 2002, he looked like I had nailed him with a 2X4."

And therein lies the problem.  Canadian citizens as a whole are incredibly self-centred and short-sighted.  I realize that I am tarring an entire nation with a simple-minded brush, but on the whole it rigns true.  I was a member of Op APOLLO "way back" in 2002.  That commitment has already been forgotten.

I'm not bitter in the least.  I am simply distressed that the general Canadian public are so abjectly navel-gazing that the vast majority don't remember why we are in Afghanistan in the first place, nor does the social collective have a clue we as a nation stand for.  It sometimes makes me wonder what I've devoted my entire adulthood to.  26 years in the infantry, and it seems that all I can do is preach to the converted.

The majority of Canadians simply "don't get it".  That is bizarre.  It is also frustrating.  But above and beyond that, it is foremost scary.  Sheep (as a nation) to the slaughter.....

 

[HDE]

Mark

    I've gotta agree.  There seems to be an increasing disinterest in, or inability to understand,  anything that requires much reflection or thinking about the longer term.  It doesn't bode well when large numbers of citizens seem to live in the moment.

 

[cobbler]

Not only did this idiot lie, he used Australia as a pawn to do so, and worst of all it's lying about an issue that is non-existent here in Aus.

There is no argument over our deployments in afghanistan, actually that's not true, there have been calls, from some factions in the moderate left in fact, that it hasn't been strong enough.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not only did this idiot lie, he used Australia as a pawn to do so, and worst of all it's lying about an issue that is non-existent here in Aus.

There is no argument over our deployments in afghanistan, actually that's not true, there have been calls, from some factions in the moderate left in fact, that it hasn't been strong enough.

cobbler - you're in fair company.  He pulled the same stunt with President Karzai - claiming that Karzai agreed with him that a military solution was not the solution.  Bill Good challenged him on that on a call in show here in Vancouver and he was forced to admit that he neglected to mention that that was the only point of agreement that they had and that Karzai continued to stress the security needs as well as the humanitarian needs.  At the same time he chastises the Conservatives because even they say the war can't be won militarily (alone).

Jack has moved into my FOAD file for the irredeemably loony.

 

[warspite]

Personally I don't think the problem is that Canadians just don't care, but rather that we(I speak as a civilion) have all been brought up to have no faith in the armed forces, I have a distinct memory from grade three of me and many of my friends ridiculing the armed forces, (please forgive me for my sins, I have since learned the error of my ways and hope to serve proudly as soon as I can) but if in grade three kids are ridiculing the armed forces that trend is likely to continue, in my case I leared better and by now many of my friends no longer criticize the armed forces... but that may just be my influence. But I believe the problem is that these trends start young and unless corrected develop into an anti-military or uncaring attitude toward the armed forces.

 

[Jacqueline]

This is what I intended to E-mail Mr. Layton, but it said that the service was unavailable right now. I will give him this:

Dear Mr. Layton
              I will be brisk and informing. I think you are making false statements about Australia withdrawing it's entire special forces from Afghanistan with deliberate intentions to deceive the people of Canada. I think you are twisting the truth and have lost the foothold of many including myself because of your repetitive trickiness.
            -Jacqueline Ford

 

[Nieghorn]

I must admit I was twice a NDP supporter, but mostly for the social and environmental policies I support.  I always said to my friend with whom I discuss politics and military affairs that their foreign policy and view for the Forces had me concerned.  Jack's most recent outburst has had me fall into a group, with one or two others who've posted on this site, who won't be supporting them any further.  I'd be echoing other's statements on here saying that I'm disgusted by his spin, so I'll leave it with that.  Despite my leftist leanings, as an historian and military buff, I've always been a keen supporter of our military past and present (odd, eh?).  His act is the final straw of my occasional support.  Shameful.

I'm also finding myself increasingly frustrated with the media and many Canadians' blindness to the facts, or at least disinterest in reading a more balanced account than what their local 6pm news tells them.  My parents watch this, and it seems with every death/attack the anchors bring up the 'controversy' and 'need for debate' and talk to someone who has no clue why we're there.  I've sworn never to tune in for one minute anymore for fear of my brain exploding.

I've made the effort to read a few different sources on our involvement and developments in 'the sand box' and think I have a fairly clear view, hence my support for efforts to crush those who'd prevent the people of Afghanistan from enjoying even just some of the freedoms we do.  It reeks of selfishness on the part of those Canadians who declare we should pull out, as all I can think is, "Do they not know how many innocent civilians will be killed as a result?"  Even if people don't support the initial cause (and Afgh is a much nobler than Iraq if they need any justification, given the Taliban regime's iron grip), they should at least support the need to see this one through until the end.  I think when this is over (and I certainly hope it's for the better), I think history will look on this as one of the successful forays into 'peacemaking' which might just make the world a little nicer for those people without the power to do it for themselves.  And as someone who's seriously considering a military career, who at least who cares deeply for his friends and family in the Forces, I think helping stabilize such a destitute nation is a worthy cause.

 

[pbi]

With the mentality of some people who sound off in this country (politicians, wannabes and otherwise...) I think we would have quit WWII right after Dieppe or Hong Kong. This is a gross-oversimplification, but the point I am making is that we seem to have lost sight of the idea that if you stand up to dangerous, determined and heavily armed people, somebody will get hurt. So, is the answer to stop standing up? I hope not.

Cheers

 

[Weinie]

  IMHO, and as disgusting as this may sound, I don't believe that Jack's motivations here are as apparent as some believe. Jack is trying to woo the undecided left and soft liberals ( most of whom are dovish) to his camp, and using the guise of Canadian troops out of Afghanistan as his lever. Every vote he receives translates into dollars for the party, and he has to increase his 18 ish percent of popular support at the next federal election, or risk losing the leadership of the party.  So Jack is being deceitful once more, as well as cynical and manipulative, but never idealistic. Realpolitik as policy.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Don't know if this is the best thread to tack this on to, but thought you'd enjoy!

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Layton mulls trip to Afghanistan
Ian Bailey, CanWest News Service, 1 Oct 06
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=b7349ee8-226f-4c64-8b65-9f07ce673740

Federal NDP Leader Jack Layton, who wants Canada to pull its troops from Afghanistan, says he wants to visit the war-torn country to get a sense of the situation there.

But Layton told The Province during a trip to Vancouver that he does not need to have been to Afghanistan to be a credible critic of Canada's role there.

"I don't think credibility on the question of whether the mission is working depends on whether a person has the opportunity to be there," Layton said.

"If that was the case, then most Canadians would have to be absent themselves for the debate, and I don't accept that proposition."

Two of four federal party leaders in the House of Commons have been to Afghanistan where 2,200 Canadian soldiers are posted.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been. Bill Graham, interim leader for the Liberals, went twice while foreign affairs and defence minister in the former Liberal government.

Layton and Gilles Duceppe, leader of the Bloc Quebecois, have yet to visit.

Layton has called for Canadian troops to leave Afghanistan by next February, slamming the mission there as improperly planned to achieve peace.

The position, strongly endorsed by rank-and-file NDP members at the party's national convention early in September, has put the New Democrats odds with the other three parties in Parliament.

Thirty-seven soldiers and one Canadian diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002 the latest being Pte. Josh Klukie, from an Ontario-based regiment killed by an explosive device Friday while on patrol near Kandahar. Canada has been involved in reconstruction in Afghanistan and battling remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaida.

Layton said he was invited to Afghanistan by that country's president, Hamid Karzai, when the pair met during Karzai's recent trip to Canada.

"The timing of such a visit is something I'd like to discuss further with the Afghanistan officials and, of course, with our own Foreign Affairs officials here," he said.

Layton said, at this point, his office was working through logistics on the issue, but that he would, among other things, like to talk to elected officials in the country, aid groups, and Canadian troops.

Asked whether he was concerned about his own security, he replied: "Not any more than anybody else would be."

Layton has condemned the effort as a "George Bush-style counter-insurgency war" and called on Canada to pursue humanitarian aid, reconstruction and peace.

He called on Canada to declare it won't abandon Afghanistan, but will stop what isn't working.

"The goal of trying to help resolve conflicts in other than war fighting approaches is, I think, a uniquely Canadian goal in the world," he said.

ibailey@png.canwest.com

© CanWest News Service 2006

 

[vonGarvin]

Oh, I "DO" hope he goes.  It may actually open his eyes to the dangers of trying to rebuild and the folly of not trying to get the bad guys before they get you.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The little prick would probably leak his schedule to his friends in party hedquarters, which would almost certainly find its way into the hands of AQ and then the Taliban.   Sniper bait. Who the heck would want to be within 100 metres of him in theatre?

 

[medicineman]

That's one CP detail I'd never want to be on - pretty hard not to accidentally on purpose leave him in the middle of Panjwai or some other lovely place all by his lonesome.  Though, with our luck, I'm sure he'd find some way of talking his way out of an orange jumpsuit...

MM

 

[The Bread Guy]

The little prick would probably leak his schedule to his friends in party hedquarters, which would almost certainly find its way into the hands of AQ and then the Taliban.   Sniper bait. Who the heck would want to be within 100 metres of him in theatre?

Don't want to sound too disloyal, but "sniper bait" for which side?  >

 

[GAP]

Don't want to sound too disloyal, but "sniper bait" for which side?  >

Who knows?  You do know this is not PC?  ;D

 

[neko]

Oh, I "DO" hope he goes.  It may actually open his eyes to the dangers of trying to rebuild and the folly of not trying to get the bad guys before they get you.

This assumes he gets his head out of his ass long enough to see anything.
Seriously though I wonder why he wants to go, if of course he's not just giving lip service to the idea. Does he actually want to see firsthand what is going on and how it is working and provide support or campaign for better ways. Or does he just want to be able to say he has been there so his pull the troops line has more credibility. (not that credible and Layton belong in a sentence together)

 

[RangerRay]

The little prick would probably leak his schedule to his friends in party hedquarters, which would almost certainly find its way into the hands of AQ and then the Taliban.   Sniper bait. Who the heck would want to be within 100 metres of him in theatre?

Why would the Taliban want to take out Taliban Jack?  He's their best friend in Canada!

I think he'd have more to fear from the troops!  ;D

 

[RangerRay]

Or does he just want to be able to say he has been there so his pull the troops line has more credibility.

I believe this is closer to the truth.  I'm sure Taliban Jack knows the truth of the situation in A'stan, but he's using this as a wedge issue to get the sizable, but ignorant anti-war crowd to support his party.

(not that credible and Layton belong in a sentence together)

Give the man a cigar!  ;D